Difference between revisions of "2009-05-31 Why do people persist in voting Republican/woozle/2009"
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(→Abortion: finished with this section, starting on next (guns)) |
(refinement on abortion; numbering of rounds, to help keep things straight; fixed indenting irregularities) |
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Keeping the kids away from the heavy machinery is still the ticket here, I think. | Keeping the kids away from the heavy machinery is still the ticket here, I think. | ||
| − | = | + | ==Responses== |
| − | ==Midian== | + | ===Midian (round 1)=== |
As a liberty-minded individual, I vote Republican only because I cannot come around to the Democrat mindset. | As a liberty-minded individual, I vote Republican only because I cannot come around to the Democrat mindset. | ||
* The premise that an unborn child's life is worth less than a convicted murderer; murder is murder, all life is sacrosanct, I am against capital punishment AND free (gov. funded) abortion, but if I had to choose, as I do in politics, my choice is clear, I side with the innocent. | * The premise that an unborn child's life is worth less than a convicted murderer; murder is murder, all life is sacrosanct, I am against capital punishment AND free (gov. funded) abortion, but if I had to choose, as I do in politics, my choice is clear, I side with the innocent. | ||
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I have similar issues with the Republicans (legalize marijuana already), however, when weighing one against the other, these are more important to me than those. Without the 2nd amendment, who will stand up for the others? "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -Thomas Jefferson | I have similar issues with the Republicans (legalize marijuana already), however, when weighing one against the other, these are more important to me than those. Without the 2nd amendment, who will stand up for the others? "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -Thomas Jefferson | ||
| − | ===Woozle responds=== | + | ===Woozle responds (round 1)=== |
* [M] ''"The premise that an unborn child's life is worth less than a convicted murderer..."'' | * [M] ''"The premise that an unborn child's life is worth less than a convicted murderer..."'' | ||
** Framing it as a matter of "worth" is oversimplifying the issue. First off, a convicted murderer ''may'' in fact be innocent (and states with a death penalty tend to have a higher error rate, from what I can tell). Second, is it really in a child's best interests to be born to parents who don't want a child, and who may be inadequately prepared to take care of it? More generally, "pro-life" people seem to be under the illusion that it is ''always'' better to be alive than not to be, but this is not always the case, and we can only use our best judgment as to when life is preferable and when it is not. | ** Framing it as a matter of "worth" is oversimplifying the issue. First off, a convicted murderer ''may'' in fact be innocent (and states with a death penalty tend to have a higher error rate, from what I can tell). Second, is it really in a child's best interests to be born to parents who don't want a child, and who may be inadequately prepared to take care of it? More generally, "pro-life" people seem to be under the illusion that it is ''always'' better to be alive than not to be, but this is not always the case, and we can only use our best judgment as to when life is preferable and when it is not. | ||
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Yes, the government should fear -- or at least be answerable and accountable to -- the people. We seem to be losing that. (...with help from Republican arguments against "populism", thanks. The Republicans ''are not your friends on this issue''.) | Yes, the government should fear -- or at least be answerable and accountable to -- the people. We seem to be losing that. (...with help from Republican arguments against "populism", thanks. The Republicans ''are not your friends on this issue''.) | ||
| − | ===Midian responds=== | + | ===Midian responds (round 2)=== |
* You have the chance to save an innocent baby from drowning or a convicted murderer. Who do you dive in and save? | * You have the chance to save an innocent baby from drowning or a convicted murderer. Who do you dive in and save? | ||
* 1 innocent executed is far too many. This is why I am against capital punishment. Our system is broken. A justice system where liberal judges release violent offenders far too often, where there is only a 1 in 10 chance of a conviction for capital crimes, and where the average time spent for murder 1 is 5 days. Also, corrupt cops, judges, and lawyers all convicting the innocent and releasing the guilty by keeping evidence hidden, fabricating evidence, fabricating and hiding testimony, doing deals, etc. Until the system is fixed, there should not be executions because you can't undo that once someone is found innocent after the fact, which happens far too often. | * 1 innocent executed is far too many. This is why I am against capital punishment. Our system is broken. A justice system where liberal judges release violent offenders far too often, where there is only a 1 in 10 chance of a conviction for capital crimes, and where the average time spent for murder 1 is 5 days. Also, corrupt cops, judges, and lawyers all convicting the innocent and releasing the guilty by keeping evidence hidden, fabricating evidence, fabricating and hiding testimony, doing deals, etc. Until the system is fixed, there should not be executions because you can't undo that once someone is found innocent after the fact, which happens far too often. | ||
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How I see it is the Republicans and Democrats are different rails of the same track, both heading us in the wrong direction. However, typically (but not always, especially locally) the Republicans allow me more freedom to make my own choices with my money, my health, my defense, my freedoms. | How I see it is the Republicans and Democrats are different rails of the same track, both heading us in the wrong direction. However, typically (but not always, especially locally) the Republicans allow me more freedom to make my own choices with my money, my health, my defense, my freedoms. | ||
| − | ===Woozle responds at length=== | + | ===Woozle responds at length (round 2)=== |
====preface one==== | ====preface one==== | ||
I will respond in more detail later (gotta go pick up kids from school in 20 minutes), but I need to make something clear. | I will respond in more detail later (gotta go pick up kids from school in 20 minutes), but I need to make something clear. | ||
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That's not the America I grew up in, and it's not a direction I want to see us going in. --[[User:Woozle|Woozle]] 20:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC) | That's not the America I grew up in, and it's not a direction I want to see us going in. --[[User:Woozle|Woozle]] 20:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC) | ||
| − | ===Midian's Response=== | + | ===Midian's Response (round 3)=== |
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# Provide incentives to save money, as the military does. If an idea works better and saves money, 10% of the savings of the first year goes to the person who provided the idea. | # Provide incentives to save money, as the military does. If an idea works better and saves money, 10% of the savings of the first year goes to the person who provided the idea. | ||
# Implement what works elsewhere. If NH does better with a 75/25% classroom/administration spending split, implement the same. | # Implement what works elsewhere. If NH does better with a 75/25% classroom/administration spending split, implement the same. | ||
| − | ===Woozle Responds - in progress=== | + | ===Woozle Responds (round 3) - in progress=== |
====Left vs. Right==== | ====Left vs. Right==== | ||
I think we agree on this overall; see [[political ideological axis]] for an overview, and [[political ideological axes]] for other ways of mapping political ideologies. | I think we agree on this overall; see [[political ideological axis]] for an overview, and [[political ideological axes]] for other ways of mapping political ideologies. | ||
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* S/he also has the potential to be the next Hitler, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, Tim McVeigh, Jeffrey Dahmer, or Dick Cheney. | * S/he also has the potential to be the next Hitler, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, Tim McVeigh, Jeffrey Dahmer, or Dick Cheney. | ||
What do you think the odds are? For every shining example of humanity, how many horrible killers are there? | What do you think the odds are? For every shining example of humanity, how many horrible killers are there? | ||
| − | * | + | * By this argument, every woman should have as many babies as she possibly can, from menarche to menopause... which often seems to be the pro-life point of view; no egg or ejaculation must be wasted, no copulation must be prevented from allowing "God's will" to manifest as a pregnancy. Is this what you are arguing? |
| + | * I'll give up Einstein if the alternative is slavery, and that's what you're arguing for. The fetus is part of the woman's body until it is born, and you are arguing that the government or society owns it. | ||
I agree with your solutions overall, though I don't see why you would remove the right of gay/mixed-race/etc. couples to adopt regardless of state. What happens if such a couple adopts in one state and then moves (for reasons of employment, say) to a state where their adoption isn't recognized. Will they be treated fairly in that state? I doubt it. | I agree with your solutions overall, though I don't see why you would remove the right of gay/mixed-race/etc. couples to adopt regardless of state. What happens if such a couple adopts in one state and then moves (for reasons of employment, say) to a state where their adoption isn't recognized. Will they be treated fairly in that state? I doubt it. | ||
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''More later. --[[User:Woozle|Woozle]] 13:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)'' | ''More later. --[[User:Woozle|Woozle]] 13:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)'' | ||
| − | + | ===Midian (round 4)=== | |
Ron Paul is who I voted for due to many of the reasons stated above. I even wrote him in for the general election because I knew he was the only one who would get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. | Ron Paul is who I voted for due to many of the reasons stated above. I even wrote him in for the general election because I knew he was the only one who would get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. | ||