Difference between revisions of "Being gay is a choice"

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(While the experimenter himself argues that it would be a mistake to conclude "that gay men are born that way" based on his experiment, it's not clear that any other, contradictory conclusion would be more reasonable.)
 
(While the experimenter himself argues that it would be a mistake to conclude "that gay men are born that way" based on his experiment, it's not clear that any other, contradictory conclusion would be more reasonable.)
 
===Point is irrelevant===
 
===Point is irrelevant===
'''Whether or not it is a choice is irrelevant'''. There are plenty of arguments against homosexuality either way. These arguments, valid or otherwise, serve only to muddy the issue.
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'''Whether or not it is a choice is irrelevant'''. Arguments over whether or not is is a choice, valid or not, serve only to muddy the issue; the only ''relevant'' question, as for any activity which some people do and others don't, is whether it is [[good or bad]].
  
Whether or not something is a choice, the important question should be whether that thing is [[good or bad]].
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* '''If it is [[bad]]''':
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** If it is bad and ''involuntary'', then there should be research to help overcome it (e.g. alcoholism, smoking) – as indeed was tried for many years with homosexuality, with much harm done to those supposedly "cured" (see [[wikipedia:Homosexuality and psychology|Homosexuality and psychology]]) and as is still being practiced in a much less scientific rational, and humane way by the [[fundamentalist Christian]] [[ex-gay]] movement.
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** If it is bad and ''voluntary'' (i.e. "a choice" -- e.g. drinking alcohol or smoking for the first time), then we need to both have a clear understanding of (a) ''why'' it is bad ''and'' (b) why individuals nonetheless desire it. (Until you understand the latter, you haven't conclusively answered the former.)
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*** It would also be advisable to compare with how the law handles other "harmful but popular" activities; smoking and drinking, for example, are heavily restricted but not illegal. Smokers are not ''prevented'' from obtaining medical insurance, or prevented from being included on a spouse's insurance policy; the cost of that insurance is simply raised in direct correspondence with their increased likelihood of needing medical attention due to smoking.
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* '''If it is [[good]]''', then it should be encouraged, regardless of whether it is a "choice".
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* '''If it is not clearly good or bad overall''', then it should fall within the bounds of the "[[pursuit of happiness]]", which is stated as an "unalienable right" by the [[wikipedia:United States Declaration of Independence|United States Declaration of Independence]] and general freedom of choice.
  
* If it is ''involuntary'' and [[bad]], then there should be research to help overcome it, as indeed was tried for many years with homosexuality, with very few (if any) [[good]] results (see [[wikipedia:Homosexuality and psychology|Homosexuality and psychology]])
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==Links==
* If it is ''voluntary'' (i.e. "a choice") and [[bad]], then we need to both have a clear understanding of (a) ''why'' it is bad ''and'' (b) of why individuals nonetheless desire it. (Until you understand the latter, you haven't conclusively answered the former.)
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===Reference===
* If it is [[good]], then it should be encouraged, regardless of whether it is a "choice".
 
* If it is neither good nor bad overall but still believed by individuals to be desirable, then it should fall within the bounds of the "pursuit of happiness", which is stated as an "unalienable right" by the [[wikipedia:United States Declaration of Independence|United States Declaration of Independence]].
 
==Reference==
 
 
* Wikipedia:
 
* Wikipedia:
 
** [[wikipedia:Homosexuality|Homosexuality]]:
 
** [[wikipedia:Homosexuality|Homosexuality]]:
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*** [[wikipedia:Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness|Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness]]
 
*** [[wikipedia:Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness|Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness]]
 
*** [[wikipedia:Inalienable rights|Inalienable rights]]
 
*** [[wikipedia:Inalienable rights|Inalienable rights]]
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===News===
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{{links/news}}

Latest revision as of 16:24, 15 February 2009

Claim

Opponents of gay marriage (and homosexuality in general) often argue that being gay is a choice, and that this somehow proves that the gay lifestyle (and gay marriage in particular) is illegitimate and should not be given any legal recognition or protections.

Counterpoints

Scientific evidence disagrees

Scientific evidence currently disagrees with this conclusion. Although there is as yet no evidence that homosexuality is genetic in origin (and it may in fact turn out to be the case that there is no genetic component), there do seem to be significant physiological differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals, much as there are between transsexuals and non-transsexuals:

"...notable differences between the physiology of a heterosexual male and a homosexual male. These differences are primarily noted in the brain, inner ear and olfactory sense." [W]

(While the experimenter himself argues that it would be a mistake to conclude "that gay men are born that way" based on his experiment, it's not clear that any other, contradictory conclusion would be more reasonable.)

Point is irrelevant

Whether or not it is a choice is irrelevant. Arguments over whether or not is is a choice, valid or not, serve only to muddy the issue; the only relevant question, as for any activity which some people do and others don't, is whether it is good or bad.

  • If it is bad:
    • If it is bad and involuntary, then there should be research to help overcome it (e.g. alcoholism, smoking) – as indeed was tried for many years with homosexuality, with much harm done to those supposedly "cured" (see Homosexuality and psychology) and as is still being practiced in a much less scientific rational, and humane way by the fundamentalist Christian ex-gay movement.
    • If it is bad and voluntary (i.e. "a choice" -- e.g. drinking alcohol or smoking for the first time), then we need to both have a clear understanding of (a) why it is bad and (b) why individuals nonetheless desire it. (Until you understand the latter, you haven't conclusively answered the former.)
      • It would also be advisable to compare with how the law handles other "harmful but popular" activities; smoking and drinking, for example, are heavily restricted but not illegal. Smokers are not prevented from obtaining medical insurance, or prevented from being included on a spouse's insurance policy; the cost of that insurance is simply raised in direct correspondence with their increased likelihood of needing medical attention due to smoking.
  • If it is good, then it should be encouraged, regardless of whether it is a "choice".
  • If it is not clearly good or bad overall, then it should fall within the bounds of the "pursuit of happiness", which is stated as an "unalienable right" by the United States Declaration of Independence and general freedom of choice.

Links

Reference

News