Difference between revisions of "Bill Clinton vs. George W. Bush"

From Issuepedia
m (Reverted edits by (Talk); changed back to last version by Woozle)
Line 1: Line 1:
[http://quoits.cn/zeljko-joksimovic.html zeljko joksimovic video s] [http://barcheoccasione.clung.cn/index.html barche occasione] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-wwe-con/index.html www wwe con] [http://benasibross.fast-road.cn/index.html benasi bross] [http://kitmun.cn/yoyo-yaya-balli.html yoyo yaya balli di gruppo] [http://banchieri.romanikki.cn/index.html banchieri] [http://snailtail.cn/xsat-fun-hexa/index.html xsat fun hexa] [http://bindiya.midways.cn/index.html bindiya] [http://knock-knock.cn/wanna-rock/index.html wanna rock] [http://beppebarra.kittiss.cn/index.html beppe barra] [http://boogiepaoloconte.clung.cn/index.html boogie paolo conte] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-libri-ro/index.html www libri ro] [http://wonted.cn/www-appendice/index.html www appendice it] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-harry-potter/index.html www harry potter it] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-giannanannini/index.html www giannanannini com] [http://botellaenvenenada.midways.cn/index.html botella envenenada] [http://bbaiocodes.fast-road.cn/index.html bbaio codes] [http://snailtail.cn/www-portaleaziende/index.html www portaleaziende it] [http://boxercane.fast-road.cn/index.html boxer cane] [http://bedbreakfasttrentino.kittiss.cn/index.html bed breakfast trentino] [http://snailtail.cn/www-sms-mania/index.html www sms mania it] [http://behindblueeyeslimpbiskit.kittiss.cn/index.html behind blue eyes limp biskit] [http://bmwminituning.midways.cn/index.html bmw mini tuning] [http://bellalavita.kittiss.cn/index.html bella la vita] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-yiyeavila/index.html www yiyeavila org] [http://brittanymurphy.midways.cn/index.html brittany murphy] [http://biodivesita.kittiss.cn/index.html biodivesita] [http://banbinenude.romanikki.cn/index.html banbine nude] [http://knock-knock.cn/wwwregione/index.html wwwregione lombardia it] [http://snailtail.cn/xmen2/index.html xmen2] [http://beniniantonio.midways.cn/index.html benini antonio] [http://beanieman.clung.cn/index.html beanie man] [http://quoits.cn/arcana.html arcana] [http://quoits.cn/zucchero-mana.html zucchero mana] [http://snailtail.cn/xem-anh-khoa/index.html xem anh khoa than hong nhung] [http://benkingsley.midways.cn/index.html ben kingsley] [http://barzellettaarchivio.kittiss.cn/index.html barzelletta archivio] [http://kitmun.cn/yankse-progdvb.html yankse progdvb] [http://betegsegek.fast-road.cn/index.html betegsegek] [http://snailtail.cn/www-ssk-com/index.html www ssk com] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-chirca/index.html www chirca it] [http://wonted.cn/www-inps-firenze/index.html www inps firenze it] [http://babilonsexroncadelle.midways.cn/index.html babilonsex roncadelle] [http://wonted.cn/www-jetix-it/index.html www jetix it] [http://bergh.clung.cn/index.html bergh] [http://berlina.romanikki.cn/index.html berlina] [http://bolaffi.kittiss.cn/index.html bolaffi] [http://kitmun.cn/ziony-lennox.html ziony lennox] [http://quoits.cn/ammutinamento.html ammutinamento nello spazio] [http://kitmun.cn/yo-sin-ti.html yo sin ti] [http://billwiters.kittiss.cn/index.html bill witers] [http://wonted.cn/www-tuttogratis/index.html www tuttogratis] [http://basmentjaxgoodluck.kittiss.cn/index.html basment jax good luck] [http://bombayrockersrockthaparty.clung.cn/index.html bombay rockers rock tha party] [http://wonted.cn/www-sleazydream/index.html www sleazydream com main html] [http://wonted.cn/www-rincondelvago/index.html www rincondelvago com] [http://blackeyedpease.fast-road.cn/index.html black eyed pease] [http://bosonroutertest539.kittiss.cn/index.html boson router test 5 39] [http://beheadkimsun.fast-road.cn/index.html behead kim sun] [http://birraichnusa.clung.cn/index.html birraichnusa] [http://bredpittnudo.romanikki.cn/index.html bred pitt nudo] [http://wonted.cn/windsurf/index.html windsurf in italia] [http://britneyspearsehanna.midways.cn/index.html britney spears e hanna] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-daniel/index.html www daniel com] [http://billymyers.fast-road.cn/index.html billy myers] [http://bookeburns.midways.cn/index.html booke burns] [http://bravoclubcreta.midways.cn/index.html bravo club creta] [http://biagio.clung.cn/index.html biagio] [http://basileannrimes.fast-road.cn/index.html basi leann rimes] [http://snailtail.cn/www-powergeneurope/index.html www powergeneurope com] [http://knock-knock.cn/web-de/index.html web de] [http://kitmun.cn/yetisport5.html yetisport5] [http://kitmun.cn/yerva-brava.html yerva brava] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-cerea/index.html www cerea net] [http://barbarastreisand.clung.cn/index.html barbara streisand] [http://baccara.romanikki.cn/index.html baccara] [http://bortesi.midways.cn/index.html bortesi] [http://badreligion.fast-road.cn/index.html bad religion] [http://bittersweetsymphony.fast-road.cn/index.html bitter sweet symphony] [http://bayrischeband.romanikki.cn/index.html bayrische band] [http://snailtail.cn/xvid-fts/index.html xvid fts] [http://snailtail.cn/xtra-co-nz/index.html xtra co nz] [http://braninatalizi.clung.cn/index.html brani natalizi] [http://berg.clung.cn/index.html berg] [http://kitmun.cn/yu-gi-oh-carte.html yu gi oh carte] [http://snailtail.cn/y-lloro/index.html y lloro] [http://brigan.midways.cn/index.html brigan] [http://blackeyepease.fast-road.cn/index.html black eye pease] [http://quoits.cn/adolescente.html adolescente delle caverne] [http://wonted.cn/webcam-in/index.html webcam in camere degli alberghi] [http://kitmun.cn/yeyha.html yeyha] [http://brunoemarronetaxista.midways.cn/index.html bruno e marrone taxista] [http://bikerslife.midways.cn/index.html bikerslife] [http://brittnyspearsinthenudecom.fast-road.cn/index.html brittny spears in the nude com] [http://bolognaaffittostudenti.fast-road.cn/index.html bologna affitto studenti] [http://knock-knock.cn/wwwviaggi/index.html wwwviaggi] [http://bolognafc.fast-road.cn/index.html bologna fc] [http://kitmun.cn/zeriyt.html zeriyt] [http://wonted.cn/www-provicia/index.html www provicia milano] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-interia/index.html www interia pl] [http://breakbeat.clung.cn/index.html break beat] [http://blaisepascal.fast-road.cn/index.html blaise pascal] [http://bodiversita.kittiss.cn/index.html bodiversita] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-xelion/index.html www xelion it] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-lapergola/index.html www lapergola ischia it] [http://bichini.fast-road.cn/index.html bichini] [http://baggioannico.clung.cn/index.html baggio annico] [http://budifer.midways.cn/index.html budi fer] [http://benjaminmkenzie.clung.cn/index.html benjamin mkenzie] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-il-vantaggio/index.html www il vantaggio it] [http://wonted.cn/www-astra-ro/index.html www astra ro] [http://bancomer.romanikki.cn/index.html bancomer] [http://kitmun.cn/yu-yu-bonjour.html yu yu bonjour bonjour] [http://wonted.cn/www-plaistation/index.html www plaistation it] [http://wonted.cn/www-tuttotesti/index.html www tuttotesti comu] [http://wonted.cn/www-polini/index.html www polini com] [http://barbi.romanikki.cn/index.html barbi] [http://quoits.cn/zombie-the-cramberris.html zombie the cramberris] [http://bugia.midways.cn/index.html bugia] [http://quoits.cn/acqua-in-bocca.html acqua in bocca] [http://biancadantonio.fast-road.cn/index.html bianca d antonio] [http://brusco.kittiss.cn/index.html brusco] [http://wonted.cn/www-bordelli/index.html www bordelli it] [http://snailtail.cn/yacam-download/index.html yacam download] [http://quoits.cn/alì-babà-e.html alì babà e i quaranta ladroni] [http://bridgethall.kittiss.cn/index.html bridget hall] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-agesci/index.html www agesci org] [http://badaresgistrada.clung.cn/index.html bada resgistrada] [http://wonted.cn/www-euphoriadisco/index.html www euphoriadisco it] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-webshopcard/index.html www webshopcard com] [http://bancamediolan.romanikki.cn/index.html bancamediolan] [http://bother.romanikki.cn/index.html bother] [http://backstreetboy.fast-road.cn/index.html backstreet boy] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-maie-it/index.html www maie it] [http://quoits.cn/zozzimma.html zozzimma] [http://snailtail.cn/yamaha-500/index.html yamaha 500 prezzi] [http://snailtail.cn/www-gtk-co-uk/index.html www gtk co uk] [http://snailtail.cn/yaoouu/index.html yaoouu] [http://breatheesay.fast-road.cn/index.html breathe esay] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-assidasolo/index.html www assidasolo it] [http://wonted.cn/www-teenarabic/index.html www teenarabic com] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-versioni/index.html www versioni it] [http://brookeburnes.kittiss.cn/index.html brooke burnes] [http://blackplanetcom.clung.cn/index.html black planet com] [http://bellesex.romanikki.cn/index.html belle sex] [http://brigittanelson.clung.cn/index.html brigitta nelson] [http://ballettobarese.fast-road.cn/index.html balletto barese] [http://quoits.cn/zoids-american.html zoids american hasbro] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-eurostar/index.html www eurostar it] [http://knock-knock.cn/www-niccoclub/index.html www niccoclub it] ==Overview==
Defenders of [[George W. Bush]] sometimes argue that [[Bill Clinton]] set a new (lower) standard for presidential behavior. While this is at best a "[[he did it first]]" argument, and more likely just [[changing the subject]], it is worth setting the record straight on the matter in order to minimize the amount of time spent being sidetracked.{{seed}}
Defenders of [[George W. Bush]] sometimes argue that [[Bill Clinton]] set a new (lower) standard for presidential behavior. While this is at best a "[[he did it first]]" argument, and more likely just [[changing the subject]], it is worth setting the record straight on the matter in order to minimize the amount of time spent being sidetracked.{{seed}}
==Related Pages==
==Related Pages==
Line 35: Line 35:
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | Unemployment
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | Unemployment
| 7.3% -> 4.2%
| 7.3% -
| 4.2% -> 4.7%
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | Real median household income
| grew by $5,825
| fell by $1,273
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | poverty rate
| fell 3.5% (6.4 million fewer people)
| rose 1.3% (5.4 million more people)
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | S&P 500
| + 308% (435.49 -> 1342.54)
| - 2.1% (1342.54 -> 1314.78 as of 9/22/06)
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | NASDAQ
| + 395% (700.77 -> 2770.38)
| - 20% (2770.38 -> 2218.93 as of 9/22/06).
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | Federal Spending as % of GDP
| 22.1% (fiscal 1992) to 18.4% in 2000
| back up to 20.8% (fiscal 2006)
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | total executive branch employment<br><small>does not include classified numbers for CIA, DIA, NSA, &  other intelligence agencies; does not include outsourced jobs</small>
| down by almost 450,000 (2.225 million -&gt; 1.778 million)
| up by almost 100,000 (to 1.872 million).
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | Federal Debt
| deficit of $290 billion {{rtarrow}} '''surplus''' of $236 billion (fiscal 2000)
| increased by almost $3 trillion (as of 2006)
| style="background: #eeeeee;" | Public Debt as % of GDP
| -16.4%
| +4.4%
See also [[Balkans vs. Iraq]]
===Note 1===
"savagely cut funds ''[to the Border Patrol, and continued]'' cutting till the border tsunami began bothering even his most loyal redstate supporters"[http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2006/09/cracks-are-appearing-all-over.html], leading to the [[wikipedia:2006 United States immigration reform protests|2006 immigration crisis]]
===Note 2===
These charges were made by Republican-led congress but acquitted by the Democrat-led Senate, a decision which many (especially but not exclusively Republicans) disagreed with vehemently.
==Bumper Stickers==
"No children died / when Clinton lied." &ndash; seen 2006-09-22
"Republicans used to observe derisively that Clinton had a difficult relationship with the truth. Bush has a difficult relationship with the truth, too. It's just a different &ndash; and perhaps more grave &ndash; kind of difficulty." &ndash; [http://www.slate.com/id/2095160 William Saletan]
{{excerpt|[[David Brin]] said on 2007-03-25 (with minor editing):}}
The top ostrich tactic is to claim that Clinton was only marginally not quite as bad [as [[George W. Bush|Bush]]], but made of the same substance.
Wrong. He was utterly and diametrically opposite to these guys in almost every way.
While a sinner and somewhat slick/slimy, he stayed with a wife and child his entire adult life. Since [[Ronald Reagan|Reagan]], the [[GOP]] has done an utter reverse and become the party of divorce, utterly forgiving [their] marriage-monsters simply because they are on the right side, and ignoring the hypocrisy that nearly ALL of Clinton's pursuers had no right to cast stones at him, or even to stare upward in awe at his marriage.
This hypocrisy is vastly outweighed by the far worse hypocrisy toward malfeasance in office. Dig it. EVERY weapon of disclosure was aimed at the Clintons.
Congressional investigations raged, special prosecutors stomped about like Godzilla, spending BILLIONS.
FBI agents were diverted from important anti-terror duties DURING THE SIX MONTHS BEFORE [[9/11]] with the sole goal of finding a smoking Clintonian gun that could lead to indictments. (An act of treason, frankly.)
The GSA and all Inspectors General were ordered to leave no stone unturned.
Now add to that the fact that Clinton et al DECREASED SECRECY IN GOVERNMENT to a larger degree than any before it. Ever. Diametrically opposite to the skyrocketing secrecy of these monsters.
Add it all together and the result? Absolutely ZERO INDICTMENTS OF ANY CLINTONIAN FOR MALFEASANCE IN OFFICE OF ANY KIND, WHATSOEVER. Twelve years of culture war and radio screeches and howls about "slick willy" and "the most corrupt" administration...
...and it turned out to be &ndash; by any objective measure &ndash; by far the most open and honest administration in the entire history of the entire human race. Proved (ironically) by the relentless scrutiny of its opposition.
Disprove this. Put up or shut up. I am sick of this example of the [[Big Lie]].
The Big Truth is that Clinton was an honest and excellent administrator whose appointees treated the civil servants and officers with respect and got good work out of them, trying to make government lean and effective in service of the people of the United States.
This is proved and diametrically opposite to absolutely everything about the monsters who replaced them.
So no. I will not stop mentioning Clinton. It is perfectly relevant to demand that ostriches ponder "what if Clinton had done this?" Because if Clinton had &ndash; if he had done a SCINTILLA of the monstrous things that are leaking out of the tight wall of collusion and secrecy and stonewalling &ndash; then the ostrich would have screeched bloody murder.
This is hypocrisy, cowardice.
And if some new thing happens &ndash; say to the US Navy &ndash; without ostriches waking up to pull their heads out of the sand and turning their eyes to treason in their midst, then I say that they will be traitors, too.
{{-excerpt|in [http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2007/03/da-brins-latest-book-media-podcasts.html#4817064494437824086 Contrary Brin]}}
Response from the original provocateur:
{{excerpt|"RadicalModerate" wrote:}}
It's not that I think [[Clinton administration|Clintonco]] was just as bad as [[Bush II administration|Bushco]]. Rather, Clintonco would have been as bad as Bushco given a similar set of circumstances. There are three major differences:
# The 90's were truly a "vacation from history." The economy literally ran itself and sizeable foreign policy blunders had no consequences until Clinton was out of office. Bushco has certainly not had that luxury.
# Divided government is accountable government. Clinton benefitted hugely from having the GOP nipping at his heels. In other words, he was forced to have the most open government in history by his political enemies. Bushco got to run open-loop for 6 years because his own party wouldn't investigate him. While I'm sure I will indulge in much eye-rolling over the next 2 years, the fact that the relationship between Congress and the Executive is once again adversarial will vastly improve Bushco and the Congress.
# I know I'm sounding like a broken record here, but the single mistake of [[US invasion of Iraq|invading Iraq]] the wrong way has warped all subsequent foreign policy. I'd like to think that Clinton would have been wise enough to avoid this decision but frankly I don't know. The man certainly had his own "wag the dog" propensities when backed up against the wall.
{{quoteon}}{{excerpt|[[User:Woozle|Woozle]] responds:}}
* Point #1 I am skeptical of. So the whole Balkan thing isn't part of history now? Oh, wait, you mean it isn't part of history ''because we didn't screw up terribly'', leaving a distinct absence of huge wounds in the national psyche which will take decades to heal, so nobody really remembers it, so it doesn't count? I doubt that's the only example of "history" in progress during the 1990s. (Clinton also made some of what I would consider mistakes, e.g. signing the [[Digital Millennium Copyright Act]] into law; I don't hear you mentioning that, but I'd have to say that was history too.)
* Point #2: Oh come on! Clinton, ''from the very start'', was all about Town Meetings and listening to ordinary citizens to find out what they wanted to see the government doing, and talking extensively about what he was doing and why, and opening the process so everyone could see the proof. He didn't have to start the most massive declassification in history, and it certainly wasn't at the GOP's insistence that he did so. (WTF?). Bush has been completely the opposite, sheltering himself from all but his closest advisors. If Clinton been Bush Jr. in disguise, he would have spent his first 2 unopposed years in office (before the [[neocon]]s took over) classifying and hiding everything the way Bush has done, and he would have responded to the first sign of threat by clamping down even further.
* Point #3: "single mistake"?? Iraq is a series of mistakes a mile long, and even now Bush wants to add another surge of them. He also made plenty of other [[corruption in the Bush administration|mistakes]], some of them quite possibly deliberate.
{{excerpt|[[David Brin]] said on 2007-03-15:}}
[Clinton's perjury] is far worse than relentless firehose tsunamis of relentlessly shameful lying about matters of PUBLIC POLICY and LIFE and DEATH?
Bush and [[Dick Cheney|Cheney]] and [[Colin Powell|Powell]] lie to the entire world and to the American people, in order to get us to waste a trillion dollars, ten thousand of our own lives, half a million foreign lives, destroy our alliances, our [[US military readiness|readiness]], our world trust...
Sorry, wrong. They WERE perpetrated under oath. An oath to defend the [[Constitution of the United States]].
{{-excerpt|in [http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2007/03/could-you-remind-me-again-just-who-is.html#312942337477140514 Contrary Brin]}}
Brin goes on to point out that this argument is pure sophistry in any case, as it is equivalent to saying that [[Franklin Delano Roosevelt|FDR]] is a worse war criminal than [[Hitler]] because FDR signed orders creating [[Japanese internment camps]] during [[WWII]], while Hitler never actually ''signed'' the orders creating [[Auschwitz]]. ''(Is there a name for this [[logical fallacy]]?)''
* '''2006-09-26'''
** [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15029671/ 'Tucker' for Sept. 26]: more discussion of Clinton's interview ("The former president lost control of himself famously during a FOX interview on Sunday."), with Terry McAuliffe (former DNC chairman) defending Clinton and attacking Bush; Tucker seems to take a sympathetic stand but comes up with things like "eight years of negligence on the part of the Clinton administration".
** [http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2006/09/arguments-for-your-obstinate-uncle.html Arguments for your obstinate uncle...]: some more comparison points (by Russ Daggatt, with some [[David Brin|Brin]] commentary)
** [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215397,00.html Bill Clinton's Fox News interview] ([http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/09/22/president-clinton-blasts-chris-wallace/ alternate transcription (partial)])
*** [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15004160/ Keith Olbermann comments] ("A textbook definition of cowardice"):
**** Points out that (a) Clinton ''did'' try to do something about Bin Laden, (b) Clinton was indeed distracted by the Lewinsky scandal, and (c) The distractions of 1998 and 1999 (Lewinsky and other scandalous trivia) were manufactured by the same people who got [[George W. Bush]] elected President.

Revision as of 13:15, 10 September 2007

zeljko joksimovic video s barche occasione www wwe con benasi bross yoyo yaya balli di gruppo banchieri xsat fun hexa bindiya wanna rock beppe barra boogie paolo conte www libri ro www appendice it www harry potter it www giannanannini com botella envenenada bbaio codes www portaleaziende it boxer cane bed breakfast trentino www sms mania it behind blue eyes limp biskit bmw mini tuning bella la vita www yiyeavila org brittany murphy biodivesita banbine nude wwwregione lombardia it xmen2 benini antonio beanie man arcana zucchero mana xem anh khoa than hong nhung ben kingsley barzelletta archivio yankse progdvb betegsegek www ssk com www chirca it www inps firenze it babilonsex roncadelle www jetix it bergh berlina bolaffi ziony lennox ammutinamento nello spazio yo sin ti bill witers www tuttogratis basment jax good luck bombay rockers rock tha party www sleazydream com main html www rincondelvago com black eyed pease boson router test 5 39 behead kim sun birraichnusa bred pitt nudo windsurf in italia britney spears e hanna www daniel com billy myers booke burns bravo club creta biagio basi leann rimes www powergeneurope com web de yetisport5 yerva brava www cerea net barbara streisand baccara bortesi bad religion bitter sweet symphony bayrische band xvid fts xtra co nz brani natalizi berg yu gi oh carte y lloro brigan black eye pease adolescente delle caverne webcam in camere degli alberghi yeyha bruno e marrone taxista bikerslife brittny spears in the nude com bologna affitto studenti wwwviaggi bologna fc zeriyt www provicia milano www interia pl break beat blaise pascal bodiversita www xelion it www lapergola ischia it bichini baggio annico budi fer benjamin mkenzie www il vantaggio it www astra ro bancomer yu yu bonjour bonjour www plaistation it www tuttotesti comu www polini com barbi zombie the cramberris bugia acqua in bocca bianca d antonio brusco www bordelli it yacam download alì babà e i quaranta ladroni bridget hall www agesci org bada resgistrada www euphoriadisco it www webshopcard com bancamediolan bother backstreet boy www maie it zozzimma yamaha 500 prezzi www gtk co uk yaoouu breathe esay www assidasolo it www teenarabic com www versioni it brooke burnes black planet com belle sex brigitta nelson balletto barese zoids american hasbro www eurostar it www niccoclub it ==Overview== Defenders of George W. Bush sometimes argue that Bill Clinton set a new (lower) standard for presidential behavior. While this is at best a "he did it first" argument, and more likely just changing the subject, it is worth setting the record straight on the matter in order to minimize the amount of time spent being sidetracked.

This article is a seed. You can help Issuepedia by watering it.

Related Pages

Specific Points

Bill Clinton George W. Bush
doubled the Border Patrol early in his first term severely cut Border Patrol funds1
Subject of lying his personal life significant matters of state
Severity of lying charged with perjury2 (lying under oath) aforesaid lies were merely official statements and not under oath
charged with obstruction of justice2 informally accused of attempted destruction of Democracy
Economy "It's The Economy, Stupid"
Average annual GDP growth 3.6% 2.6%
Non-farm employment added 22.7 million jobs added 3 million jobs
(worst record of any US president in 70 years)
Unemployment 7.3% -