mapping out discussion with Wendy

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mapping out discussion with Wendy

Edited by author.
Last edit: 13:21, 19 June 2020

I think we're agreed on the following points:

  • Trans women are women, trans men are men. - she doesn't agree with this; discussion needed
  • Trans people of all types are (as much as anyone else) entitled to NHS medical treatment, under their direction, to assist with transition and maintenance.
  • Actual trans women are not an enemy of cis women.
  • The trans legal situation the UK is generally much better than in the US.
    • Unlike the US, trans people already have full rights to be recognized as their gender identity. (This includes restrooms and so forth.)
    • ...and this may be a cause of some misunderstanding when UK people talk about trans issues on social media.
  • "Cis" is not a slur.

Points to be verified/discussed:

  1. from Wendy (paraphrased if not in quotes):
    1. "Biologically, you can't change sex."
    2. "Refusing to present in a feminine appearance makes women suspicious if a male-presenting person shows up in a space meant for women. It's what all the fighting is about." - this issue probably depends on the belief that trans women are not biologically women
    3. There are people posing as trans women for malicious reasons.
      1. One example is UK/Karen White.
    4. The current furor is around the question of whether to expand existing laws, to give more protections.
    5. Those laws are fine as they are.
    6. ...despite leaving loopholes for exploitation by fake trans people.
  2. from Woozle:
    1. The Trans Crime UK web site itself is a form of anti-trans agitation.
Woozle (talk)13:43, 18 June 2020

Woozle says: The Trans Crime UK web site itself is a form of anti-trans agitation. It may be valuable to have a list of examples of any given point, such as "trans people commit violent crimes", but setting aside an entire web site to draw attention to this fact distorts readers' perceptions of the problem and, even if it was created with the best of intentions, serves as a way of driving anti-trans sentiment and at least feels like a hostile move.

Woozle (talk)14:26, 18 June 2020

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Wendy said (paraphrased): Karen White is an example of a fake trans person who is just trolling the system.

From what I've been able to tell, she's a real trans person who happens to be a criminal. I'm not going to deny her transness just because she also seems to be a terrible person; that would be just as bad as protecting an anti-trans troll who really identifies as male but pretends to be trans in order to abuse trans privileges (e.g. women's bathroom rights, presence in women's social spaces, etc.).

Woozle (talk)23:55, 18 June 2020