Difference between revisions of "Tim Hunt/UCL resignation"

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[[category:controversies]]
 
[[category:controversies]]
 
==Claims==
 
==Claims==
* There was a "witch hunt" against Tim Hunt. "Sir Andre Geim, of the University of Manchester who shared the Nobel prize for physics in 2010 said that Sir Tim had been 'crucified' by ideological fanatics , and castigated UCL for 'ousting' him."<ref name=tele />
+
* There was a "witch hunt"<ref name=Dawkins />, "inquisition"<ref name=reason />, and/or "feeding frenzy"<ref name=Dawkins /> against Tim Hunt, who was "crucified by fanatics"<ref name=tele-06-20 />, an "intolerant mob"<ref name=reason /> and "expel[led] from public life"<ref name=reason />, "hounded out"<ref name=BrianCox /> by "mob rule"<ref name=Dawkins /> in a "trial by social media"<ref name=BrianCox />.
** How so? If he was "hung out to dry", why did he resign voluntarily?
+
** How so? No relevant details given.
 +
* Hunt was "hung out to dry" by UCL.
 +
** If he was "hung out to dry", why did he resign voluntarily? Did he even argue with UCL about it? Where is that argument reported?
 +
* Hunt was only joking.<ref name=reason />
 +
** What is the evidence for this?
 +
*** The laughter in the original recording ''proves'' that he was joking.
 +
**** No, it doesn't. That just proves that the people who laughed thought what he said was funny -- which could have been it could have been "funny as in true" or "funny as in I can't believe he said that".
 +
*** Hunt himself said he was only joking.<ref name=tele-06-11 />
 +
**** He also seems to have meant them sincerely nonetheless. "I did mean the part about having trouble with girls. It is true that people - I have fallen in love with people in the lab and people in the lab have fallen in love with me and it's very disruptive to the science because it's terribly important that in a lab people are on a level playing field. I found that these emotional entanglements made life very difficult."<ref name=tele-06-11 />
 +
*** He also acknowledged that, in retrospect, the comments were not funny: "I accept that my attempts at a self-deprecating joke were ill-judged and not in the least bit funny."<ref name=kofwst />
 +
* More female scientists have come out in support of Hunt than have come out against.
 +
** Documentation? This would require a collection of links to female scientists expressing opinions on Hunt. Where is this collection?
 +
* Hunt was fired from his position.
 +
** No, he resigned.
 +
* Hunt was forced to resign.<ref name=tele-06-20 />
 +
** He apparently emailed in his resignation on request, without comment. "Tim duly emailed his resignation when he got home."<ref name=guar-06-13 />
 +
* Hunt was misquoted.
 +
** No, Hunt has never denied saying the things attributed to him by St Louis (and the recording apparently didn't reveal any misquotes either).
 +
 
 
==Timeline==
 
==Timeline==
The affair seems to have started with this Tweet on June 8: https://twitter.com/connie_stlouis/status/607813783075954688
+
The affair seems to have started with this Tweet by Connie St. Louis on June 8: https://twitter.com/connie_stlouis/status/607813783075954688
  
 
===June 9===
 
===June 9===
Line 19: Line 37:
  
 
The position was unpaid and did not offer any special privileges; he wasn't doing research there or anything. It was purely for PR. When he dramatically failed at maintaining UCL's positive reputation, it was time to end the relationship.
 
The position was unpaid and did not offer any special privileges; he wasn't doing research there or anything. It was purely for PR. When he dramatically failed at maintaining UCL's positive reputation, it was time to end the relationship.
 +
 +
* http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/11/1392298/-British-Nobel-Laureate-resigns-after-being-exposed-as-a-chauvinist-oaf
  
 
===June 11===
 
===June 11===
Line 26: Line 46:
 
...but the matter didn't end there.
 
...but the matter didn't end there.
  
==Links==
+
==Outlinks==
 +
===Reference===
 +
* {{wikipedia|Tim Hunt}}
 +
* [https://storify.com/LouiseMensch/the-witch-hunt-on-sir-tim-hunt The Witch-Hunt of Sir #TimHunt : The Changing Story]: includes much of the Twitter dialogue between attendees and other key players
 +
* [https://storify.com/deborahblum/tim-hunt-and-his-jokes-about-women-scientists Tim Hunt "jokes" about women scientists. Or not.]
 
===to file===
 
===to file===
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/14/the-nobel-is-not-a-get-out-of-jail-free-card/
+
* '''2015-12-15''' [https://medium.com/@LouiseMensch/the-tim-hunt-debacle-c914395d5e01#.9o0wm7q0y The Tim Hunt Debacle: Why Feminists Cleared a Nobel Prizewinner] ([https://plus.google.com/+paulbeard/posts/Wx9fD1gDJn2 via]) by Louise Mensch: includes many embedded Tweets and other evidence
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/15/liberal-academia-gets-to-tell-brendan-oneill-that-hes-full-of-shit/
+
* '''2015-11-09''' [https://medium.com/@danwaddell/saving-tim-hunt-97db23c6ee93 Saving Tim Hunt] ([https://plus.google.com/+KeeHinckley/posts/ZeESyKQ7MUg via]) "The campaign to exonerate Tim Hunt for his sexist remarks in Seoul is built on myths, misinformation, and spin." Includes much additional evidence, with sources.
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/17/thats-a-slightly-better-apology/
+
* '''2015-06-17''' [http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/17/thats-a-slightly-better-apology/comment-page-1/ That’s a slightly better apology] by PZ Myers
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/19/a-question-for-richard-dawkins/
+
 
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/20/i-thought-they-didnt-like-hyperbole/
+
===Timeline===
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/23/that-poor-wee-man/
+
* '''2015-06-08''' [https://twitter.com/connie_stlouis/status/607813783075954688 Tweet: Connie St Louis] (most of the content is text in an image)
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/29/what-does-the-chair-of-the-diversity-committee-at-the-royal-society-have-to-say-about-tim-hunt/
+
** Other attendants confirmed St. Louis's Tweet: [https://twitter.com/deborahblum/status/608243609805025280 Deborah Blum], [https://twitter.com/ivanoransky/status/608331353986371588 Ivan Oransky]
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/30/skeptics/
+
* '''2015-06-09''' [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/09/nobel-prize-winning-biologist-calls-women-love-hungry-cry-babies.html Nobel Prize-Winning Biologist Calls Women Love-Hungry Crybabies]
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/07/09/are-we-done-with-tim-hunt-now/
+
* '''2015-06-09''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/09/being-a-good-scientist-doesnt-make-one-a-good-person/
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/07/10/welp-i-guess-well-never-be-done-with-tim-hunt/
+
* '''2015-06-10''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/10/mediocre/
* http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/07/11/i-have-no-illusions-that-this-will-end-the-nonsense-either/
+
* '''2015-06-10''' [http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/sir-tim-hunts-sexist-remarks-with-lab-rats-like-him-is-it-any-wonder-theres-a-shortage-of-women-in-science-10311591.html Sir Tim Hunt's sexist remarks: With lab rats like him, is it any wonder there’s a shortage of women in science?]: cites Connie St Louis as saying "there was this deathly silence. A lot of my colleagues ... couldn’t believe somebody would be prepared to stand up and be so crass, rude and openly sexist." but does not link to a source
 +
* '''2015-06-10''' [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/10/nobel-scientist-tim-hunt-female-scientists-cause-trouble-for-men-in-labs Nobel scientist Tim Hunt: female scientists cause trouble for men in labs]
 +
* '''2015-06-10''' [http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0615/100615-tim-hunt Sir Tim Hunt FRS and UCL]: resignation announcement
 +
* '''2015-06-11''' [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11667002/Sexism-row-scientist-Sir-Tim-Hunt-quits-over-trouble-with-girls-speech.html Sexism row scientist Sir Tim Hunt quits over ‘trouble with girls’ speech]
 +
* '''2015-06-11''' [http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/11/nobel-laureate-sir-tim-hunt-resigns-trouble-with-girls-comments Nobel laureate Tim Hunt resigns after 'trouble with girls' comments]
 +
* '''2015-06-11''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/11/removing-sexism-strengthens-academia/
 +
* '''2015-06-11''' http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/11/1392298/-British-Nobel-Laureate-resigns-after-being-exposed-as-a-chauvinist-oaf
 +
* '''2015-06-12''' [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/world/europe/tim-hunt-nobel-laureate-resigns-sexist-women-female-scientists.html?_r=0 Women Respond to Nobel Laureate's 'Trouble With Girls']: one origin of the "stony silence" quote; includes a number of snarky Tweets from female scientists
 +
* '''2015-06-13''' [http://reason.com/archives/2015/06/13/the-illiberal-persecution-of-tim-hunt The Illiberal Persecution of Tim Hunt]
 +
* '''2015-06-13''' [http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/13/tim-hunt-hung-out-to-dry-interview-mary-collins Tim Hunt: 'I’ve been hung out to dry. They haven't even bothered to ask for my side of affairs'] Hunt's wife, Mary Collins: "I was told by a senior that Tim had to resign immediately or be sacked – though I was told it would be treated as a low-key affair. Tim duly emailed his resignation when he got home. The university promptly announced his resignation on its website and started tweeting that they had got rid of him. Essentially, they had hung both of us out to dry. They certainly did not treat it as a low-key affair. I got no warning about the announcement and no offer of help, even though I have worked there for nearly 20 years. It has done me lasting damage. What they did was unacceptable."
 +
* '''2015-06-13''' http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/13/tim-hunt-forced-to-resign
 +
* '''2015-06-14''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/14/the-nobel-is-not-a-get-out-of-jail-free-card/
 +
* '''2015-06-15''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/15/liberal-academia-gets-to-tell-brendan-oneill-that-hes-full-of-shit/
 +
* '''2015-06-16''' [http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/16/boris-johnson-criticised-over-women-crying-remarks Boris Johnson criticised over 'women crying' remarks]
 +
* '''2015-06-16''' [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/16/brian-cox-criticises-disproportionate-reaction-to-tim-hunts-comments Brian Cox criticises 'disproportionate' reaction to Tim Hunt's comments]
 +
* '''2015-06-16''' [https://conniestlouis.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/press-release-kofwst-and-sir-tim-hunt_june-17.pdf Demand letter for apology and Response of Sir Tim Hunt] by <abbr title="Korea Federation of Women's Science & Technology Associations">KOFWST</abbr>
 +
* '''2015-06-16''' [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/16/sexist-scientist-i-was-being-honest.html Sexist Scientist: I Was Being ‘Honest’] by Deborah Blum (present at the incident) "As St. Louis recounted yesterday, she, Oransky, and I sat down, and compared our notes to make sure we had an accurate account. We wanted to call out the remarks but we didn’t want to be heavy-handed about it or to be rude to our hosts. Yes, journalists really think like this. So we fretted over it; we decided to keep it simple. Connie would tweet the event; Ivan and I would retweet her. And that’s what we did."
 +
* '''2015-06-17''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/17/thats-a-slightly-better-apology/
 +
* '''2015-06-19''' [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/19/tim-hunt-the-victim-of-self-righteous-feeding-frenzy-says-richard-dawkins Tim Hunt the victim of self-righteous feeding frenzy, says Richard Dawkins]
 +
* '''2015-06-19''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/19/a-question-for-richard-dawkins/
 +
* '''2015-06-20''' [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11688134/Nobel-prizewinners-defend-Sir-Tim-Hunt-amid-sexism-row.html Nobel prizewinners defend Sir Tim Hunt amid 'sexism' row]
 +
* '''2015-06-20''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/20/i-thought-they-didnt-like-hyperbole/
 +
* '''2015-06-20''' [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/20/sir-tim-hunt-gratitude-female-scientists-support-joke Sir Tim Hunt: my gratitude to female scientists for their support] "The beleaguered UK scientist Sir Tim Hunt on Saturday thanked the hundreds of female scientists who have written to support him in the wake of the furore triggered by his controversial remarks about women in science."
 +
* '''2015-06-21''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2015/06/utterly-ruined-by-sexist-speaker/
 +
* '''2015-06-22''' [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/07/22/sexist_scientist_tim_hunt_the_real_story_127491.html "Sexist Scientist" Tim Hunt: The Real Story]: takes the position that Hunt was "an awkward self-deprecating joke &ndash; greeted with laughter" and that the "real scandal" is "irresponsible journalism magnified by social media frenzy."
 +
* '''2015-06-23''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/23/that-poor-wee-man/
 +
* '''2015-06-23''' [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/23/stop-defending-tim-hunt-brian-cox-richard-dawkins  Stop defending Tim Hunt] by Connie St Louis (article mis-spells {{l/wp|Audre Lorde}} as "Andre Lorde")
 +
* '''2015-06-29''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/29/what-does-the-chair-of-the-diversity-committee-at-the-royal-society-have-to-say-about-tim-hunt/
 +
* '''2015-06-30''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/30/skeptics/
 +
* '''2015-06-30''' [http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/30/the-guardian-view-on-the-tim-hunt-affair-an-explosive-combination-of-science-sexism-and-social-media The Guardian view on the Tim Hunt affair: an explosive combination of science, sexism and social media] (editorial)
 +
* '''2015-07-02''' [http://unfashionista.com/2015/07/02/the-royal-societys-diversity-committee-pre-judged-timhunt-now-ucl-should-give-him-due-process/ The Royal Society’s ‘Diversity Committee’ Pre-Judged #TimHunt. Now UCL Should Give Him Due Process]: compares Hunt's position with that of someone who is working for an income that they need. Not at all the same thing.
 +
* '''2015-07-09''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/07/09/are-we-done-with-tim-hunt-now/
 +
* '''2015-07-10''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/07/10/welp-i-guess-well-never-be-done-with-tim-hunt/
 +
* '''2015-07-11''' http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/07/11/i-have-no-illusions-that-this-will-end-the-nonsense-either/
 +
* '''2015-07-13''' [http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/13/responding-to-criticism-of-our-coverage-of-the-tim-hunt-affair Responding to criticism of our coverage of the Tim Hunt affair]
 
* '''2015-07-18''' [http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/article4501473.ece The tape that shows Sir Tim was wronged]: a recording of the speech in which the fateful statements were made, and this somehow proves Hunt was right. But the original accusations against him did not make any of the claims which the tape supposedly addresses.
 
* '''2015-07-18''' [http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/article4501473.ece The tape that shows Sir Tim was wronged]: a recording of the speech in which the fateful statements were made, and this somehow proves Hunt was right. But the original accusations against him did not make any of the claims which the tape supposedly addresses.
 +
* '''2015-07-21''' [http://unfashionista.com/2015/07/21/the-silence-of-the-shams-wcsj2015-falsely-reported-sir-tim-hunt/ The Silence of the Shams: #WCSJ2015 Falsely Reported Sir Tim Hunt] - quotes Connie St. Louis as saying "After he’d finished, there was this deathly, deathly silence. Very clearly, nobody was laughing &ndash; everybody was stony-faced.", but there's no link. ''Where did she say that?''
 +
* '''2015-11-28''' [http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/11/28/louise-mensch-gets-smacked-down-again/ Louise Mensch gets smacked down again] "According to Louise Mensch, the Korea Federation of Women’s Science and Technology (KOFWST), the organization that hosted Tim Hunt’s now notorious speech at a luncheon, the Korean scientists at the event were not at all offended by his jokes about same-sex labs and women crying and falling in love all the time. Unfortunately for her, the Menschian deluge of excuses has now been [https://www.byline.com/column/44/article/616 strongly repudiated by the federation]. They have posted a statement publicly and also directly addressed to Mensch a request that she read it."
  
 
==Footnotes==
 
==Footnotes==
 
<references>
 
<references>
<ref name=tele>'''2015-06-20''' [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11688134/Nobel-prizewinners-defend-Sir-Tim-Hunt-amid-sexism-row.html Nobel prizewinners defend Sir Tim Hunt amid 'sexism' row] (via [http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/20/i-thought-they-didnt-like-hyperbole/ FtB])</ref>
+
<ref name=tele-06-11>'''2015-06-11''' [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11667002/Sexism-row-scientist-Sir-Tim-Hunt-quits-over-trouble-with-girls-speech.html Sexism row scientist Sir Tim Hunt quits over ‘trouble with girls’ speech]</ref>
 +
<ref name=kofwst>'''2015-06-16''' [https://conniestlouis.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/press-release-kofwst-and-sir-tim-hunt_june-17.pdf Demand letter for apology and Response of Sir Tim Hunt] by <abbr title="Korea Federation of Women's Science & Technology Associations">KOFWST</abbr></ref>
 +
<ref name=guar-06-13>'''2015-06-13''' [http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/13/tim-hunt-hung-out-to-dry-interview-mary-collins Tim Hunt: 'I’ve been hung out to dry. They haven't even bothered to ask for my side of affairs']</ref>
 +
<ref name=tele-06-20>'''2015-06-20''' [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11688134/Nobel-prizewinners-defend-Sir-Tim-Hunt-amid-sexism-row.html Nobel prizewinners defend Sir Tim Hunt amid 'sexism' row] (via [http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/20/i-thought-they-didnt-like-hyperbole/ FtB]) "Sir Andre Geim, of the University of Manchester who shared the Nobel prize for physics in 2010 said that Sir Tim had been 'crucified' by ideological fanatics , and castigated UCL for 'ousting' him."</ref>
 +
<ref name=reason>'''2015-06-13''' [http://reason.com/archives/2015/06/13/the-illiberal-persecution-of-tim-hunt The Illiberal Persecution of Tim Hunt]</ref>
 +
<ref name=Dawkins>'''2015-06-19''' [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/19/tim-hunt-the-victim-of-self-righteous-feeding-frenzy-says-richard-dawkins Tim Hunt the victim of self-righteous feeding frenzy, says Richard Dawkins]</ref>
 +
<ref name=BrianCox>'''2015-06-16''' [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/16/brian-cox-criticises-disproportionate-reaction-to-tim-hunts-comments Brian Cox criticises 'disproportionate' reaction to Tim Hunt's comments]</ref>
 +
 
 
</references>
 
</references>

Latest revision as of 01:05, 30 December 2015

Claims

  • There was a "witch hunt"[1], "inquisition"[2], and/or "feeding frenzy"[1] against Tim Hunt, who was "crucified by fanatics"[3], an "intolerant mob"[2] and "expel[led] from public life"[2], "hounded out"[4] by "mob rule"[1] in a "trial by social media"[4].
    • How so? No relevant details given.
  • Hunt was "hung out to dry" by UCL.
    • If he was "hung out to dry", why did he resign voluntarily? Did he even argue with UCL about it? Where is that argument reported?
  • Hunt was only joking.[2]
    • What is the evidence for this?
      • The laughter in the original recording proves that he was joking.
        • No, it doesn't. That just proves that the people who laughed thought what he said was funny -- which could have been it could have been "funny as in true" or "funny as in I can't believe he said that".
      • Hunt himself said he was only joking.[5]
        • He also seems to have meant them sincerely nonetheless. "I did mean the part about having trouble with girls. It is true that people - I have fallen in love with people in the lab and people in the lab have fallen in love with me and it's very disruptive to the science because it's terribly important that in a lab people are on a level playing field. I found that these emotional entanglements made life very difficult."[5]
      • He also acknowledged that, in retrospect, the comments were not funny: "I accept that my attempts at a self-deprecating joke were ill-judged and not in the least bit funny."[6]
  • More female scientists have come out in support of Hunt than have come out against.
    • Documentation? This would require a collection of links to female scientists expressing opinions on Hunt. Where is this collection?
  • Hunt was fired from his position.
    • No, he resigned.
  • Hunt was forced to resign.[3]
    • He apparently emailed in his resignation on request, without comment. "Tim duly emailed his resignation when he got home."[7]
  • Hunt was misquoted.
    • No, Hunt has never denied saying the things attributed to him by St Louis (and the recording apparently didn't reveal any misquotes either).

Timeline

The affair seems to have started with this Tweet by Connie St. Louis on June 8: https://twitter.com/connie_stlouis/status/607813783075954688

June 9

A Daily Beast article describes Hunt's original remarks, explains why they're a problem, and goes on to paint a broader picture of sexism in science : http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/09/nobel-prize-winning-biologist-calls-women-love-hungry-cry-babies.html

That article was discussed in a blog post by PZ Myers on Pharyngula: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/09/being-a-good-scientist-doesnt-make-one-a-good-person/ "All I can say is... fuck off, dinosaur. We’re better off without you in any position of authority."

The Royal Society (of which Hunt is a member, but not an employee as far as I can tell) then "acted to distance itself" from Hunt's remarks: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/10/mediocre/ -- the Royal Society is hardly a bastion of inclusiveness (355 years old and never once had a female president), so I can't see this as a knee-jerk reaction.

June 10

Hunt resigns from his honorary position at UCL (University College London): http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0615/100615-tim-hunt

The position was unpaid and did not offer any special privileges; he wasn't doing research there or anything. It was purely for PR. When he dramatically failed at maintaining UCL's positive reputation, it was time to end the relationship.

June 11

PZ Myers reacts approvingly: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/11/removing-sexism-strengthens-academia/

...but the matter didn't end there.

Outlinks

Reference

to file

Timeline

Footnotes