https://issuepedia.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/positions/2013/political_correctness&feed=atom&action=historyUser:Woozle/positions/2013/political correctness - Revision history2024-03-29T15:22:18ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.35.0https://issuepedia.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/positions/2013/political_correctness&diff=67960&oldid=prevWoozle: Woozle moved page User:Woozle/positions/political correctness to User:Woozle/positions/2013/political correctness without leaving a redirect2020-11-08T19:04:17Z<p>Woozle moved page <a href="/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/positions/political_correctness&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Woozle/positions/political correctness (page does not exist)">User:Woozle/positions/political correctness</a> to <a href="/User:Woozle/positions/2013/political_correctness" title="User:Woozle/positions/2013/political correctness">User:Woozle/positions/2013/political correctness</a> without leaving a redirect</p>
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<td colspan="1" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 19:04, 8 November 2020</td>
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</td></tr></table>Woozlehttps://issuepedia.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/positions/2013/political_correctness&diff=34581&oldid=prevWoozle: further thoughts2014-05-06T22:53:07Z<p>further thoughts</p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* This page is adapted from what I posted [http://kdsorceress.livejournal.com/564976.html?thread=5902576#t5902576 here]. (2010-12-23)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* This page is adapted from what I posted [http://kdsorceress.livejournal.com/564976.html?thread=5902576#t5902576 here]. (2010-12-23)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Further discussion [https://plus.google.com/u/0/102282887764745350285/posts/XBvSLRqLb5s here] (2014-05-04)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Further discussion [https://plus.google.com/u/0/102282887764745350285/posts/XBvSLRqLb5s here] (2014-05-04)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Things to consider:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** It seems clear to me that there's a big difference between {using a [[polilex]] to make fun of an oppressor} and {using a polilex at the expense of the oppressed} -- but apparently proponents of political correctness do not see this distinction.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Is it insensitive to speak of explosions or [[asteroid impact]]s in terms of "Hiroshimas" of released energy? Why or why not?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** "Hurt feelings" should never be used as justification for ''requiring'' someone else to stop expressing their position. This is a form of [[silencing]]. "Hurt feelings" are routinely used to justify things like [[blasphemy law]]s, anti-gay laws, and other religious BS.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** "[[Privilege]]" should never be used as a club to invalidate someone's position. It is at best a way of trying to explain to them that they may have a distorted view of how others have to live. It is then ''on the privilege-caller'' to explain what the actual reality is, and to provide evidence thereof.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Outrage is not an argument. (Yes, I'm [[../../outrage|outraged about a lot of things]] too -- but I'm prepared to explain ''why''.)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Qualifier==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Qualifier==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I have no problem with individuals choosing to avoid certain word-usages on their own. This is about the idea that failure to do so is somehow hurtful or inconsiderate (and that it's therefore important to discourage others from such usage as well).</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I have no problem with individuals choosing to avoid certain word-usages on their own. This is about the idea that failure to do so is somehow hurtful or inconsiderate (and that it's therefore important to discourage others from such usage as well).</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Terminology==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Terminology==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I'm going to use the invented word "polilex" to mean "any word that refers to an attribute by which people can be grouped". Examples of such words include "gay", "black", "disabled", etc. (Someone who knows Greek or Latin could probably come up with a better word.)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I'm going to use the invented word "<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">[[</ins>polilex<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">]]</ins>" to mean "any word that refers to an attribute by which people can be grouped". Examples of such words include "gay", "black", "disabled", etc. (Someone who knows Greek or Latin could probably come up with a better word.)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Position==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Position==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>My understanding was that the premise behind avoiding certain usages of certain words (a.k.a. using "politically correct" vocabulary) was to avoid using polilexes in ways that imply a putdown to the referenced group -- not to avoid using polilexes (or, more precisely, words that have a polilex meaning along with any other meanings they might have) in a negative way.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>My understanding was that the premise behind avoiding certain usages of certain words (a.k.a. using "politically correct" vocabulary) was to avoid using polilexes in ways that imply a putdown to the referenced group -- not to avoid using polilexes (or, more precisely, words that have a polilex meaning along with any other meanings they might have) in a negative way.</div></td></tr>
</table>Woozlehttps://issuepedia.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/positions/2013/political_correctness&diff=34576&oldid=prevWoozle: further discussion2014-05-06T16:07:18Z<p>further discussion</p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Note</del>==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Notes</ins>==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This page is adapted from what I posted [http://kdsorceress.livejournal.com/564976.html?thread=5902576#t5902576 here].</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">* </ins>This page is adapted from what I posted [http://kdsorceress.livejournal.com/564976.html?thread=5902576#t5902576 here]. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">(2010-12-23)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">* Further discussion [https://plus.google.com/u/0/102282887764745350285/posts/XBvSLRqLb5s here] (2014-05-04)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Qualifier==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Qualifier==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I have no problem with individuals choosing to avoid certain word-usages on their own. This is about the idea that failure to do so is somehow hurtful or inconsiderate (and that it's therefore important to discourage others from such usage as well).</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I have no problem with individuals choosing to avoid certain word-usages on their own. This is about the idea that failure to do so is somehow hurtful or inconsiderate (and that it's therefore important to discourage others from such usage as well).</div></td></tr>
</table>Woozlehttps://issuepedia.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/positions/2013/political_correctness&diff=21180&oldid=prevWoozle: Created page with '==Note== This page is adapted from what I posted [http://kdsorceress.livejournal.com/564976.html?thread=5902576#t5902576 here]. ==Qualifier== I have no problem with individuals c…'2010-12-25T16:37:56Z<p>Created page with '==Note== This page is adapted from what I posted [http://kdsorceress.livejournal.com/564976.html?thread=5902576#t5902576 here]. ==Qualifier== I have no problem with individuals c…'</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>==Note==<br />
This page is adapted from what I posted [http://kdsorceress.livejournal.com/564976.html?thread=5902576#t5902576 here].<br />
==Qualifier==<br />
I have no problem with individuals choosing to avoid certain word-usages on their own. This is about the idea that failure to do so is somehow hurtful or inconsiderate (and that it's therefore important to discourage others from such usage as well).<br />
==Terminology==<br />
I'm going to use the invented word "polilex" to mean "any word that refers to an attribute by which people can be grouped". Examples of such words include "gay", "black", "disabled", etc. (Someone who knows Greek or Latin could probably come up with a better word.)<br />
==Position==<br />
My understanding was that the premise behind avoiding certain usages of certain words (a.k.a. using "politically correct" vocabulary) was to avoid using polilexes in ways that imply a putdown to the referenced group -- not to avoid using polilexes (or, more precisely, words that have a polilex meaning along with any other meanings they might have) in a negative way.<br />
<br />
I don't use words in ways where they might be honestly interpreted as a putdown of some group. That includes obvious ones like [the n-word] and "gay". I only use "bastard" when I'm joking. I don't use "bitch" unless I'm not thinking.<br />
<br />
But I will say something is "lame" because it "limps" along instead of being effective and well-designed. It doesn't mean that I think literally-lame people are less deserving of respect. If some asshole politician or pundit had said something like "we can't keep giving our tax dollars for those ''lames'' in their wheelchairs", or using "lameist" as a synonym for disabled-friendly -- or if anyone can show me examples of such usage, or could provide evidence that the words "lame" or "gimp" were commonly used as put-downs of disabled people -- I would reconsider.<br />
<br />
Maybe part of what "political correctness" is trying to achieve is the same thing as "[[non-confrontational language]]" -- which isn't about refraining from using certain words, but more about being careful how you use them.<br />
<br />
For instance: I will say someone's argument is stupid (or idiotic or retarded) if it is clearly [[denialism|ignoring information of which they have been made aware]]. Sometimes, language like that is the only way to get past people's filters, and I reserve the right to use it. However, I try to avoid describing ''people'' as idiots or morons or retarded because if they truly were, they would have a legitimate reason for not understanding my point, and I shouldn't be giving them a hard time about it.<br />
<br />
If we can use words responsibly, but then allow certain words or usages to be off-limits just because of abuse (and not because they're inherently hurtful or abusive), we're giving the abusers the power to redefine those words -- which would be seriously lame.</div>Woozle