Difference between revisions of "Zinnia Jones/bigotry"
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(let's just keep the analysis a userspace thing for now...) |
(→Acknowledgement: links, so I can close the tab of JSK's tweets) |
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===2010=== | ===2010=== | ||
* '''12-22 21:33''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/17769849488932864 Holiday stupid: Someone commenting to tell me people are born Jewish and have no choice of whether to be Jewish.] ([http://archive.is/BBGse archive.is]) | * '''12-22 21:33''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/17769849488932864 Holiday stupid: Someone commenting to tell me people are born Jewish and have no choice of whether to be Jewish.] ([http://archive.is/BBGse archive.is]) | ||
+ | ** Retweeted by @politiquestions aka "Joke Space Kabbalist" (no permalink) with the comment "BIO IS SINCERE: En/Es. Not cool. She/they. General TW. RT/DM👍! Jewish/Wt. Autistic, trans, bi. Libertarian communist = #anti-prison" | ||
+ | *** This seems like instructions of some sort to JSK's followers. "SINCERE"? "En/Es"? "General TW"? Also, is "#anti-prison" bad? | ||
+ | |||
===2016=== | ===2016=== | ||
− | * ''' | + | ====September 4==== |
+ | * '''05:17''' [https://twitter.com/zjemptv/status/772362909171220480 If she directly ordered me to murder an innocent human being I would still choose her over him. Every time. In every possible universe.] | ||
+ | ** '''05:17''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/772363034669056000 Because there are things that are bigger than that.] | ||
+ | *** '''10-18 15:29''' (@politiquestions) [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/788461982840008704 Like republicans' illegally hoarded ballots. Who will think of the direct material support for the guy you fearmonger about all day] | ||
+ | ====October==== | ||
* '''10-08 10:08''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788018914080989185 Donald Trump is best understood as an entity sent by Yahweh of the Bible/Yeshu of Nazareth.] ([http://archive.is/lkucn archive.is]) | * '''10-08 10:08''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788018914080989185 Donald Trump is best understood as an entity sent by Yahweh of the Bible/Yeshu of Nazareth.] ([http://archive.is/lkucn archive.is]) | ||
** '''10-17 10:58''' (@AKA m33n4h) [https://twitter.com/ab_silvera/status/788031327123730432 do you realise how offensive it is to compare a dude who does constant anti-semitic dog whistles to Yahweh?] | ** '''10-17 10:58''' (@AKA m33n4h) [https://twitter.com/ab_silvera/status/788031327123730432 do you realise how offensive it is to compare a dude who does constant anti-semitic dog whistles to Yahweh?] | ||
*** Another Tweeter tries to explain why the comparison is apt, but AKA m33n4h sarcastically dismisses their argument. | *** Another Tweeter tries to explain why the comparison is apt, but AKA m33n4h sarcastically dismisses their argument. | ||
− | + | ====October 18==== | |
− | + | * '''01:48''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788255499775074304 I was told these ridiculous arguments about bombing offices and killing political foes were just expressions of how upset people are.] | |
− | + | ** '''01:50''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788255878013194241 I don't care. Hundreds of you are calling for political violence. Find a better way to express your feelings. Act like responsible adults.] | |
− | + | ** '''01:51''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788256273070448640 Your guttural blather about "revolution" is nothing and your communism is a dipshit fantasy.] | |
− | *** | + | *** This and ZJ's next three Tweets were cited by a right-wing subreddit as "[https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/583x6a/zinnia_jones_goes_full_lib/ Zinnia Jones goes full liberal]" (when in fact she was rejecting far-left-wing violence) |
− | + | ** '''01:59''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788258252043714560 It's amazing how many people today argued that I should seriously respect this nonsense as if it had any substance or legitimacy.] | |
− | + | ** '''02:02''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788258994955620352 Please. Your grasp of any of this is a fucking joke. Half of you need to be told where the bullet comes out of the gun.] | |
− | ** ''' | + | ** '''02:03''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788259218063290368 I'd tell you to go fuck an ammo pouch, if you had any.] |
− | * ''' | + | ** '''02:06''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788259926984589312 "I like fire and breaking things" -Communist revolutionaries of twitter dot com] |
− | + | ** '''02:12''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788261550176034816 Next time some garbage troll communist gets on your shit for not joining their violent fantasy, tell them to kill you if they don't like it.] | |
− | + | ** '''02:15''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788262130315395072 Get off twitter and go harvest wheat, poorly.] | |
− | + | * '''11:01''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788032128940376064 Also the Old Testament is one long record of God straight-up fucking over the Israelites in every imaginable way] ([http://archive.is/3kkSY archive.is]) | |
− | + | * '''11:04''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788032889325772804 No? Nothing in anything I said was speaking of actual practices of Jewish people. The Bible is fiction.] | |
− | + | * '''12:04''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788410552183816192 "wonder how much drone fuel that'll cover" Hopefully a lot?] | |
− | + | * '''20:12''' (reply) [https://twitter.com/thetinkerfae/status/788533294749016065 you aren't Jewish this isn't your place. This is reading as antisemitic] | |
− | + | ** '''20:13''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788533606243328000 I would've chosen a different word given people interpreted it as just about Judaism. It's not, though.] | |
− | + | ** '''20:14''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788533734836412416 It was meant to refer to Christianity's deity, Islam's, LDS Church's, etc.] | |
− | + | ** '''20:15''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788534046921981952 Sorry I phrased it that way. But a faith I don't believe doesn't have to first permit me my "place" before I can criticize it.] | |
− | + | ** '''20:16''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788534162965794817 If anything it's not your place to tell me I'm somehow not allowed to critically analyze the character God in religious texts.] | |
− | + | * '''20:33''' {{l/same|2016-10-18 Tweetstorm}} | |
− | + | ====October 20==== | |
− | + | * '''13:48''' (@hyenagirl64) [https://twitter.com/hyenagirl64/status/789161275674599424 "Moral core of the trans community." *shakes head*] | |
− | + | * '''13:50''' (@hyenagirl64) [https://twitter.com/hyenagirl64/status/789161873648209920 It's almost like these folks have no involvement in the community and have no idea who anyone is besides their twitter faves.] | |
− | + | * '''13:52''' (@hyenagirl64) [https://twitter.com/hyenagirl64/status/789162342135189509 I mean, if you asked me to name someone I'd name Janet Mox, or Laverne Cox, or the Wachowskis, or Chelsea Manning, or Tobi Hill-mayer...] | |
− | + | * '''13:53''' (@hyenagirl64) [https://twitter.com/hyenagirl64/status/789162515145957376 ...and I wouldn't even name them because I know there are hundreds of hard working community organizers out there who go unnamed...] | |
− | + | * '''13:53''' (@hyenagirl64) [https://twitter.com/hyenagirl64/status/789162668410085376 ...who are doing far more for the whole community than any blogger ever will.] | |
− | + | * '''13:55''' (@hyenagirl64) [https://twitter.com/hyenagirl64/status/789163077233061888 Fuck, I'd name kadybat before Zinnia. Kadybat is helping run a sonic themed charity event for the transgender law center. How trans is that?] | |
− | + | * '''19:04''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789240812785770496 I actually don't want to be some moral center, nobody should be that and I don't think communities should work that way] | |
− | + | * '''20:52''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789268174764138496 then please stop talking and digging yourself into a bigger hole. stop presenting yourself as such a figure.] | |
− | + | * '''21:00''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789270191997878272 I don't want to. I think them seeing me as such a figure amplified the perceived urgency of this, to them.] | |
− | + | * '''21:06''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789271484074262529 when you go on lengthy authoritative sounding rants like this and project an ego it's what happens] | |
+ | * '''21:11''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789272957663272960 the alternative being? what makes it lengthy or authoritative-sounding that I shouldn't be doing?] | ||
+ | * '''21:14''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789273675228938240 maybe not telling jews their jewish opinions don't matter for a start. sometimes you just need to take a backseat.] | ||
+ | * '''21:15''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789273968175972352 that's authoritative sounding but... what they said isn't? how do you figure?] | ||
+ | ** '''21:19''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789274815991582720 Because she's actually fucking jewish and can tell you what antisemitism looks like. Jesus christ, Zinnia. Cop on.] | ||
+ | *** '''21:20''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789275143382138883 I've been told by more Jewish people that this is not antisemitic than have ever said it is antisemitic] | ||
+ | *** '''21:22''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789275626062639105 Where are these binders full of jews, Zinnia, that have told you this? Every jew I've shown your shit is disgusted.] | ||
+ | *** '''21:23''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789275832514670592 Uh what? Where exactly is your binder?] | ||
+ | *** '''21:25''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789276439501758464 you need to learn to shut the fuck up and actually listen to people that aren't your shitty liberal token friends.] | ||
+ | *** '''21:29''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789277287673888768 You just called Jewish people "shitty liberal token{s}". What would you say that is? Rhymes with 'ranty pacific'] | ||
+ | *** '''21:31''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789277835210919937 you're the one who's been taking a dump on actual jews in all this, continually. people who've been tweeting you.] | ||
+ | *** '''21:32''' (@hyenagirl64) [https://twitter.com/hyenagirl64/status/789278131706171392 I don't have anything to add to this discussion. Please un-@ me.] | ||
+ | ** '''21:20''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789275007625097217 How would you like a cis person cisplaining to you like this? Getting snarky, saying your trans views don't matter.] | ||
===2017=== | ===2017=== | ||
− | * ''' | + | ====June 9==== |
− | + | * '''01:22''' (@AliceAvizandum) [https://twitter.com/AliceAvizandum/status/883919242424455168 'well you picked a bad TIME to criticise our in-house Arab death fetishist' fuck off] | |
− | + | * '''02:02''' (@MissMacSee) [https://twitter.com/MissMacSee/status/883929272917921792 I'm out of so many loops, is it possible for you to say who this is about?] | |
− | + | * '''02:02''' (@AliceAvizandum) [https://twitter.com/AliceAvizandum/status/883929442011291649 Zinnia Jones, who's currently the trans piñata for Ray Blanchard and Fox News] | |
− | + | ** This may be a reference to [[../Ray Blanchard|ZJ's frequent attacks on anti-trans propagandist Ray Blanchard]]. | |
− | + | * '''02:03''' (@AliceAvizandum) [https://twitter.com/AliceAvizandum/status/883929554838052865 I promise you I'm not exaggerating, she had a weeks-long meltdown about how good drones were] | |
− | + | * '''02:09''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883931094739017728 months and months later, i can't un-see any of that] | |
− | + | * '''03:16''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883947943992188930 I was wrong. I'm sorry.] | |
− | + | * '''03:19''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883948825647493120 could you expand a bit on this {\n\n} it hurt a *lot* of good people, Z] | |
− | + | * '''03:28''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883950903484657665 I treated it unseriously and it was way out of line and incredibly disrespectful. I understand that now. I don't support drone strikes.] | |
− | + | * '''03:32''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883951955952926721 There was no need for me to get into anything about antisemitism or communism. I could have just stepped away but I didn't.] | |
− | + | * '''03:36''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883953028176457728 idk, working thru the anti-Semitism, rather than whether it was expressed or withheld, is probably a more constructive means of remediation] | |
− | == | + | * '''03:41''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883954175847084032 "Okay. I wasn't intending to express any kind of antisemitism. I know now that I should have just listened.] |
− | Many of these were | + | * '''03:46''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883955509367361537 i think what came across as more crucial was an insistence on being right as logical premise & not on showing capacity for empathy/humility] |
+ | * '''03:50''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883956574741569537 You're right and that's something I neglected. I disregarded the emotional side of things and was very unempathetic. I shouldn't have.] | ||
+ | * '''04:04''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883959959502950400 what i'm getting @: folks looked to you as a community organizer for work you've done. that twitterthon was a gesture of community sabotage...] | ||
+ | * '''04:05''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883960227091148800 ...not to yourself, but to all affected by your doubling-down in notably anti-social conduct. contrition will weigh far less than atonement] | ||
+ | * '''04:10''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883961518806749184 I get that and I agree. It was needlessly and wantonly destructive. I am trying to make up for it.] | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==Acknowledgement== | ||
+ | Many of these were rediscovered by Twitter user @politiquestions "Joke Space Kabbalist": | ||
* '''2017-08-24 20:12''' [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900873477309087745 I got curious and dug deeper and...I had forgotten this all started with her trying to connect trump to our religious history] | * '''2017-08-24 20:12''' [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900873477309087745 I got curious and dug deeper and...I had forgotten this all started with her trying to connect trump to our religious history] | ||
+ | ** Also: [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900892763071418368] [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900886096665493504] [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/900874264752119809 RT] ([https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900873477309087745]) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/17769849488932864 RT] [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788032889325772804 RT] [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788054170398035968 RT] [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789275143382138883 RT] [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788070977292865537 RT] [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788067394224787457 RT] [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900870223821062144] [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900865482885967873] |
Latest revision as of 11:37, 26 August 2017
About
There have been repeated claims that ZJ engages in bigotry, especially anti-Semitism, and primarily on Twitter. We are collecting evidence in order to be able to investigate these claims.
The relevant Tweets are presented below without comment. For analysis, see:
Tweets
2010
- 12-22 21:33 Holiday stupid: Someone commenting to tell me people are born Jewish and have no choice of whether to be Jewish. (archive.is)
- Retweeted by @politiquestions aka "Joke Space Kabbalist" (no permalink) with the comment "BIO IS SINCERE: En/Es. Not cool. She/they. General TW. RT/DM👍! Jewish/Wt. Autistic, trans, bi. Libertarian communist = #anti-prison"
- This seems like instructions of some sort to JSK's followers. "SINCERE"? "En/Es"? "General TW"? Also, is "#anti-prison" bad?
- Retweeted by @politiquestions aka "Joke Space Kabbalist" (no permalink) with the comment "BIO IS SINCERE: En/Es. Not cool. She/they. General TW. RT/DM👍! Jewish/Wt. Autistic, trans, bi. Libertarian communist = #anti-prison"
2016
September 4
October
- 10-08 10:08 Donald Trump is best understood as an entity sent by Yahweh of the Bible/Yeshu of Nazareth. (archive.is)
- 10-17 10:58 (@AKA m33n4h) do you realise how offensive it is to compare a dude who does constant anti-semitic dog whistles to Yahweh?
- Another Tweeter tries to explain why the comparison is apt, but AKA m33n4h sarcastically dismisses their argument.
- 10-17 10:58 (@AKA m33n4h) do you realise how offensive it is to compare a dude who does constant anti-semitic dog whistles to Yahweh?
October 18
- 01:48 (ZJ) I was told these ridiculous arguments about bombing offices and killing political foes were just expressions of how upset people are.
- 01:50 (ZJ) I don't care. Hundreds of you are calling for political violence. Find a better way to express your feelings. Act like responsible adults.
- 01:51 (ZJ) Your guttural blather about "revolution" is nothing and your communism is a dipshit fantasy.
- This and ZJ's next three Tweets were cited by a right-wing subreddit as "Zinnia Jones goes full liberal" (when in fact she was rejecting far-left-wing violence)
- 01:59 (ZJ) It's amazing how many people today argued that I should seriously respect this nonsense as if it had any substance or legitimacy.
- 02:02 (ZJ) Please. Your grasp of any of this is a fucking joke. Half of you need to be told where the bullet comes out of the gun.
- 02:03 (ZJ) I'd tell you to go fuck an ammo pouch, if you had any.
- 02:06 (ZJ) "I like fire and breaking things" -Communist revolutionaries of twitter dot com
- 02:12 (ZJ) Next time some garbage troll communist gets on your shit for not joining their violent fantasy, tell them to kill you if they don't like it.
- 02:15 (ZJ) Get off twitter and go harvest wheat, poorly.
- 11:01 Also the Old Testament is one long record of God straight-up fucking over the Israelites in every imaginable way (archive.is)
- 11:04 No? Nothing in anything I said was speaking of actual practices of Jewish people. The Bible is fiction.
- 12:04 (ZJ) "wonder how much drone fuel that'll cover" Hopefully a lot?
- 20:12 (reply) you aren't Jewish this isn't your place. This is reading as antisemitic
- 20:13 (ZJ) I would've chosen a different word given people interpreted it as just about Judaism. It's not, though.
- 20:14 (ZJ) It was meant to refer to Christianity's deity, Islam's, LDS Church's, etc.
- 20:15 (ZJ) Sorry I phrased it that way. But a faith I don't believe doesn't have to first permit me my "place" before I can criticize it.
- 20:16 (ZJ) If anything it's not your place to tell me I'm somehow not allowed to critically analyze the character God in religious texts.
- 20:33 2016-10-18 Tweetstorm
October 20
- 13:48 (@hyenagirl64) "Moral core of the trans community." *shakes head*
- 13:50 (@hyenagirl64) It's almost like these folks have no involvement in the community and have no idea who anyone is besides their twitter faves.
- 13:52 (@hyenagirl64) I mean, if you asked me to name someone I'd name Janet Mox, or Laverne Cox, or the Wachowskis, or Chelsea Manning, or Tobi Hill-mayer...
- 13:53 (@hyenagirl64) ...and I wouldn't even name them because I know there are hundreds of hard working community organizers out there who go unnamed...
- 13:53 (@hyenagirl64) ...who are doing far more for the whole community than any blogger ever will.
- 13:55 (@hyenagirl64) Fuck, I'd name kadybat before Zinnia. Kadybat is helping run a sonic themed charity event for the transgender law center. How trans is that?
- 19:04 (ZJ) I actually don't want to be some moral center, nobody should be that and I don't think communities should work that way
- 20:52 (@PrincessOtC) then please stop talking and digging yourself into a bigger hole. stop presenting yourself as such a figure.
- 21:00 (ZJ) I don't want to. I think them seeing me as such a figure amplified the perceived urgency of this, to them.
- 21:06 (@PrincessOtC) when you go on lengthy authoritative sounding rants like this and project an ego it's what happens
- 21:11 (ZJ) the alternative being? what makes it lengthy or authoritative-sounding that I shouldn't be doing?
- 21:14 (@PrincessOtC) maybe not telling jews their jewish opinions don't matter for a start. sometimes you just need to take a backseat.
- 21:15 (ZJ) that's authoritative sounding but... what they said isn't? how do you figure?
- 21:19 (@PrincessOtC) Because she's actually fucking jewish and can tell you what antisemitism looks like. Jesus christ, Zinnia. Cop on.
- 21:20 (ZJ) I've been told by more Jewish people that this is not antisemitic than have ever said it is antisemitic
- 21:22 (@PrincessOtC) Where are these binders full of jews, Zinnia, that have told you this? Every jew I've shown your shit is disgusted.
- 21:23 (ZJ) Uh what? Where exactly is your binder?
- 21:25 (@PrincessOtC) you need to learn to shut the fuck up and actually listen to people that aren't your shitty liberal token friends.
- 21:29 (ZJ) You just called Jewish people "shitty liberal token{s}". What would you say that is? Rhymes with 'ranty pacific'
- 21:31 (@PrincessOtC) you're the one who's been taking a dump on actual jews in all this, continually. people who've been tweeting you.
- 21:32 (@hyenagirl64) I don't have anything to add to this discussion. Please un-@ me.
- 21:20 (@PrincessOtC) How would you like a cis person cisplaining to you like this? Getting snarky, saying your trans views don't matter.
- 21:19 (@PrincessOtC) Because she's actually fucking jewish and can tell you what antisemitism looks like. Jesus christ, Zinnia. Cop on.
2017
June 9
- 01:22 (@AliceAvizandum) 'well you picked a bad TIME to criticise our in-house Arab death fetishist' fuck off
- 02:02 (@MissMacSee) I'm out of so many loops, is it possible for you to say who this is about?
- 02:02 (@AliceAvizandum) Zinnia Jones, who's currently the trans piñata for Ray Blanchard and Fox News
- This may be a reference to ZJ's frequent attacks on anti-trans propagandist Ray Blanchard.
- 02:03 (@AliceAvizandum) I promise you I'm not exaggerating, she had a weeks-long meltdown about how good drones were
- 02:09 (@patienceinbee) months and months later, i can't un-see any of that
- 03:16 I was wrong. I'm sorry.
- 03:19 (@patienceinbee) could you expand a bit on this {\n\n} it hurt a *lot* of good people, Z
- 03:28 (ZJ) I treated it unseriously and it was way out of line and incredibly disrespectful. I understand that now. I don't support drone strikes.
- 03:32 (ZJ) There was no need for me to get into anything about antisemitism or communism. I could have just stepped away but I didn't.
- 03:36 (@patienceinbee) idk, working thru the anti-Semitism, rather than whether it was expressed or withheld, is probably a more constructive means of remediation
- 03:41 "Okay. I wasn't intending to express any kind of antisemitism. I know now that I should have just listened.
- 03:46 (@patienceinbee) i think what came across as more crucial was an insistence on being right as logical premise & not on showing capacity for empathy/humility
- 03:50 You're right and that's something I neglected. I disregarded the emotional side of things and was very unempathetic. I shouldn't have.
- 04:04 (@patienceinbee) what i'm getting @: folks looked to you as a community organizer for work you've done. that twitterthon was a gesture of community sabotage...
- 04:05 (@patienceinbee) ...not to yourself, but to all affected by your doubling-down in notably anti-social conduct. contrition will weigh far less than atonement
- 04:10 (ZJ) I get that and I agree. It was needlessly and wantonly destructive. I am trying to make up for it.
Acknowledgement
Many of these were rediscovered by Twitter user @politiquestions "Joke Space Kabbalist":