Difference between revisions of "David Brin/The Grand American Consensus"
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In any event, I had BETTER be right. If I am not, then no amount of reform will ever empower the [[US Libertarian Party|LP]] to | In any event, I had BETTER be right. If I am not, then no amount of reform will ever empower the [[US Libertarian Party|LP]] to | ||
help move civilization forward. The [[enlightenment]] – and freedom – will turn out to be ephemera, as they were in the days of Pericles. | help move civilization forward. The [[enlightenment]] – and freedom – will turn out to be ephemera, as they were in the days of Pericles. | ||
| + | ==Reader Comments== | ||
| + | ''from the original posting at LRC; links have been added (the original contained none), and some spelling errors have been corrected'' | ||
| + | * [http://web.archive.org/web/20071010175916/http://www.reformthelp.org/forms/profilePopup.php?userId=196 Kristan Overstreet] wrote at April 20, 2006 10:55 PM | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | <p>" On the other hand, mature, unafraid, knowledgeable people often calm down, became satiable, courteous. Evidence from cultures past and present indicates that human beings tend to start dreaming of an open, tolerant society, free of coercion from nearly any starting point. Confident, satiated adults will see it as the only decent way to live no matter what propaganda they've been exposed to, or what official dogma reigns supreme. "</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>How do you explain [[Christian fundamentalism|the fundamentalists]], then? These are people who, by and large, are quite satiated, secure and confident, and yet they proudly proclaim their -opposition- to an open and tolerant society. Their avowed goal is religious coercion- and for the moment they rule our government.</p> | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | * [http://web.archive.org/web/20071010175916/http://www.reformthelp.org/forms/profilePopup.php?userId=343 David Brin] wrote at April 21, 2006 2:14 AM | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | <p>Naturally, in order to be satiated, you have to first be SATIABLE. Many people are tyranical and fearful out of PERSONALITY. Indeed, since we are all descended from the harems of brutal tyrant-kings, is this any wonder? The amazing part is the glass is more than half full. Easily a majority of our fellow citizens are as I describe. Or else, the fundamentalists would not be so thwarted and frustrated in getting ANY of their agenda passed, despite all their friends in high places.</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>-DB</p> | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | * [http://web.archive.org/web/20071010175916/http://www.reformthelp.org/forms/profilePopup.php?userId=196 Kristan Overstreet] wrote at April 21, 2006 12:12 PM | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | <p>From where I sit the fundamentalists have been quite successful indeed. Only the incompetence of [[George W. Bush|the man they chose for President]] has weakened them; without Bush, I think it all too possible that fundamentalist rule of the United States would be permanent.</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>The fundamentalists are not a majority- thank God, if you'll pardon the expression. However, the true majority is composed of people who can't be bothered to take an active role in political affairs, even so much as bothering to vote. We have to pull new voters from this pool if we are to construct a party capable of defeating both the fundamentalists and the socialists and reversing the tide of vanishing freedom.</p> | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | * [http://web.archive.org/web/20071010175916/http://www.reformthelp.org/forms/profilePopup.php?userId=225 D. G. Hees] wrote at May 22, 2006 1:04 AM | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | <p>Hey, I don't think we should blithely insult and demonize a huge percentage of our country's people, the people our party is attempting to represent.</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>Mr. Brin, your article and website show a real insight into human nature--why not apply that understanding consistently? A common thread of Christian fundamentalist opinion is that they do NOT feel secure at all. Many feel their religion, their culture, their morals and values are under attack from the very institutions they are forced to support. There is a strong anti-authoritarian sentiment. In my opinion Christian fundamentalists are very much a part of the pool of voters whose libertarian ideals we want to appeal to.</p> | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | * [http://web.archive.org/web/20071010175916/http://www.reformthelp.org/forms/profilePopup.php?userId=464 Kyle Supe] wrote at May 22, 2006 4:58 AM | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | <p>Before I say anything else I want to be clear that this is not an attack on religion. This is an attack on those who seek to make their religion mine, yours, and the entire country's. Christian fundamentalists are the last people we need in the Libertarian Party and the last people we need in office. They are intolerant extremists bent on imposing their morals on the entire country and turning this nation into a theocracy. They are the reason we are going to see a floor vote in the Senate on a Constitutional Amendment banning [[gay marriage]]. They are the reason the FCC is restricting the freedom of speech on television and the radio. They are the reason our teachers are being forced to teach religion in science classrooms. They are the reason we have laws restricting sex between consenting adults. They are <em>NOT</em> libertarians. Bringing them into the party would be completely hypocritical and would essentially make us a Republican Party clone. We cannot claim to be a party of freedom if our supporters are constantly spitting in the face of the First Amendment. The only reason they feel threatened is because not everyone will accpet their way as the right way. We as libertarians should be fighting to end their influence over government (although I suppose making them libertarians would be an effective way of doing that). You say that Christian fundamentalists "feel their religion, their culture, their morals and values are under attack from the very institutions they are forced to support." Well I feel that my religion, my culture, my morals, and my values are under attack from a government that is increasingly catering to the whims of a small faction of people. That is why I joined the LP and that is why I would go back to the Democrats if I ever thought the LP was considering appealing to religious fundamentalists.</p> | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||
| + | * [http://web.archive.org/web/20071010175916/http://www.reformthelp.org/forms/profilePopup.php?userId=716 Steven Burden] wrote at July 22, 2006 2:07 AM | ||
| + | <blockquote> | ||
| + | <p>First, I don't give a damn if they are cross-dressing, homosexual, fundamentalist Christian, socialist, male chauvinist pigs, if they support minimum government, maximum individual liberty, maximum individual responsibility and maximum free market economics, THEY ARE LIBERTARIANS.</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>You all are whining because they have achieved some political power, and can now inflict their philosophies on you.</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>You totally ignore how long they have been forced to suffer liberal philosophies because the liberals had power. Inflicted on them by dictate of the government, government schools, and the welfare state. But that doesn't count, right? because you agree with most of those concepts. That is one of the concepts that Brin seems to be getting at here.</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>Kind of a biblical 'get the frigging beam out of your own eye before you go pointing out the splinter in mine' concept.</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>The problem is that ANY group of self-styled idealists/elitists can force their opinions/morals on anyone else is what we need to get away from. Yours, mine, theirs, are all equally correct, but no one has the right to force theirs on the others.</p> | ||
| + | |||
| + | <p>Second, The power grabs are not going to ever end. The 'difference' the LP can bring to the equation, is that if government power is sufficiently minimized, then when those other groups do gain power, it will not be sufficient to have a significant impact on our day to day lives. It ain't perfect, because it takes 'eternal vigilance.' But then, isn't the lack of that what got us into this in the first place? </p> | ||
| + | </blockquote> | ||