Obamamisia/Muslim smear/Conservapedia

Overview

Conservapedia founder Andrew Schlafly (Conservapedia user aschlafly) is apparently a willing participant in the effort to spread the Muslim smear, reverting any edits which allude to evidence to the contrary.

• Barack Obama article, latest revision:

• President-elect Obama will likely become the first Muslim President, and may use the Koran to be sworn into office at his inauguration on January 20, 2009.

  • the evidence
• Woozle's edit attempting to correct this (reverted 4 minutes later by aschlafly)
• talk page discussion where Woozle asks aschlafly why the revert; much discussion ensues...

Conservapedia Claims

Claims copied from here; this argument cross-posted here.

• CLAIM: Obama's background, education, and outlook are Muslim, and fewer than 1% of Muslims convert to Christianity.
  • RESPONSE: This is actually two claims
    • CLAIM: Obama's background, education, and outlook are Muslim.
      • RESPONSE: Based on what evidence? There is a rumor that he was educated in a Madrassa in Indonesia, but this is patently false; Obama did attend a local public school (not a madrassa) in Jakarta between the ages of 6 and 8, and after that, he was enrolled in a Roman Catholic school. He did not appear to take his religious studies seriously in either school, according to witnesses.
    • CLAIM: Fewer than 1% of Muslims convert to Christianity.
      • RESPONSE: Possbly true, but this is only relevant if Obama was at some point a Muslim. He was never a Muslim.
• CLAIM: Obama's middle name (Hussein) references Husayn, who was the grandson of Muhammad, which most Christians would not retain.
  • RESPONSE 1: Most Christians also wouldn't run for president of the United States; does this prove that Obama also didn't do that?
  • RESPONSE 2: What evidence do you have that most Christians would not retain the middle name they were given at birth just because it references a mythological figure from another religion?
  • RESPONSE 3: Even if most Christians would decide to change their birth name as you claim, how does this prove that Obama is not a Christian because he did not? "Most" is not "all". Are you implying that any Christian who would not do such a thing isn't a "real Christian"?
• CLAIM: Obama recently referred to his "Muslim faith."
  • RESPONSE: The description for the YouTube video linked to as support for that claim says " It is as clear as day that he's putting sarcastic quotes around "my Muslim faith" since the entire question is about his (actual) Christian faith."
• CLAIM: Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset," and recited "with a first-class [Arabic] accent" the opening lines: Allah is Supreme! ... I witness that there is no god but Allah ...."
  • RESPONSE: How does this prove he's a Muslim? Probably many professors of Islamic studies would also be able to do these things, but that doesn't make them all Muslims. What it makes them (and Obama) is educated. Also, the only source for this allegation is Nicholos Kristof.
• CLAIM: Obama stated that the autobiography of Malcolm X, a Nation of Islam leader who became a Muslim, inspired him in his youth.
  • RESPONSE 1: Many black people were influenced by Malcolm X. You'll have to show a high degree of correlation between "being influenced by Malcom X" and "converting to Islam while denying it publicly".
  • RESPONSE 2: "Nation of Islam" is not part of the Islamic religion but was founded in the US, presumably based loosely on Islamic ideals. Do you have any evidence that Obama is a NoI member? Wouldn't NoI be very interested in publicizing Obama's membership if he had joined, as a way of promoting themselves?
• CLAIM: Obama raised nearly $1 million and campaigned for a Kenyan presidential candidate who had a written agreement with Muslim leaders promising to convert Kenya to an Islamic state that bans Christianity.
  • RESPONSE 1: Where is the evidence that Obama campaigned for Odinga?
  • RESPONSE 2: While this might demonstrate that Obama was friendly to Islam, this does not prove that he is Muslim. The Eisenhower administration arranged a coup-d'etat in Iran in 1952, replacing the democratically-elected president with a monarchy. Does that make Eisenhower an anti-democratic royalist? Donald Rumsfeld shook hands with Saddam Hussein; does that make him a Muslim terrorist?
• CLAIM: Obama's claims of conversion to Christianity arose after he became politically ambitious, lacking a date of conversion or baptism.
  • RESPONSE: Has anyone bothered to ask his church (or his office) to see if they have a record of this?
• CLAIM: On the campaign trail Obama has been reading "The Post-American World" by Fareed Zakaria, which is written from a Muslim point-of-view.
  • CLAIM: So... everyone who reads that book is a Muslim?
• CLAIM: Contrary to Christianity, the Islamic doctrine of taqiyya encourages adherents to deny they are Muslim if it advances the cause of Islam.
  • RESPONSE: Ah-HA! So every time he denies he's a Muslim, that PROVES he really IS! ...Hey, maybe you're a Muslim too! Go on, prove me wrong.
• CLAIM Obama uses the Muslim Pakistani pronunciation for "Pakistan" rather than the common American one.
  • RESPONSE: Right, and I bet he uses "C.E." instead of "A.D." in his dates, and maybe even the Metric System. He also pronounces "divisive" with a short "i" in the second syllable. What in the world does this have to do with anything?
• CLAIM: Many of Obama's statements about religion conflict with Christianity, leading one group to demonstrate with a 7-part video series, "Why Barack Obama is Not a Christian."
  • RESPONSE: Christianity has a wide range of views on a lot of different subjects, and any one person's views are bound to be "un-Christian" by someone's lights. When I have time, I will review the linked videos and respond in more detail. (Reason #1, Reason #2, Reason #3)
• CLAIM: Obama was thoroughly exposed to Christianity as an adult in Chicago prior to attending law school, yet no one at law school saw him display any interest in converting. Obama unabashedly explained how he became "churched" in a 2007 speech: "It's around that time [while working as an organizer for the Developing Communities Project (DCP) of the Calumet Community Religious Conference (CCRC) in Chicago] that some pastors I was working with came around and asked if I was a member of a church. 'If you're organizing churches,' they said, 'it might be helpful if you went to a church once in a while.' And I thought, 'I guess that makes sense.'"
  • RESPONSE: Perhaps he is simply not very enthusiastic about Christianity. Many people who aren't Muslims feel the same way.
• CLAIM: Obama is mentioned as helping to organize the 1995 million man march led by black Muslim leader Louis Farrakhan from the Nation of Islam.
  • RESPONSE: ...and therefore...? (This is basically the Malcolm X argument in a weaker form.)

Discussion

The following dialogue took place on aschlafly's talk page, and so far has been deleted at least once. --Woozle 20:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

This apparently got deleted by mistake. --woozle 14:59, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Obama's not a Muslim. Why did you revert me? --woozle 12:13, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Because you're wrong. Also, your racial claim about Obama has unclear significance and is unproven.--Aschlafly 12:40, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Re significance: are you kidding me? I mean, really -- have you not seen the reactions, domestically and abroad? Black people all across the US are talking about how amazing it is that they "lived to see this day", and they never thought it would happen.

Re "unproven": Are you suggesting that we may have unknowingly had a black president previously? Or that Obama isn't actually African-American?

As for him being a Muslim -- what's your evidence? He's a member of a Christian church, he has never (to the best of my knowledge) made any statements that weren't grounded in either secular or Christian philosophy, and his father was an atheist. When did he convert to Islam, and where is the evidence showing that this happened? --woozle 12:49, 11 November 2008 (EST)

The Obama page sets the proof out in clear fashion. Open your mind and realize the truth. RodWeathers 13:03, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Folks, you have to do better than that. We're an encyclopedia here, and statements in entries have to be meaningful and proven. Proof does not consist of asking questions, for example, or relying on popular vote.--Aschlafly 13:08, 11 November 2008 (EST)

What would you consider adequate proof? The list of arguments on the Obama page is easily refuted -- but I'm sure that if I start doing so, even here in a discussion page, you will find some pretext for removing my refutations and possibly banning me. So where is an appropriate place to have this discussion? --woozle 13:29, 11 November 2008 (EST)

You lost credibility with me with your baseless claim that the "list of arguments" is easily refuted and your excuse for not refuting them. I'm not going to spend my afternoon on your misperceptions.

Contribute to other entries. Let's see some substance first. Godspeed.--Aschlafly 13:49, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Nice Catch-22 there -- if I had gone ahead and given some "base" to my claim, you would have booted me without further ado, and erased my arguments. When I ask nicely and civilly where we can have this discussion, you brush me off. How about this, then? /Obama Muslim discussion