Difference between revisions of "Zinnia Jones/bigotry"

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==About==
 
==About==
 
There have been repeated claims that ZJ engages in bigotry, especially anti-Semitism, and primarily on Twitter. We are collecting evidence in order to be able to investigate these claims.
 
There have been repeated claims that ZJ engages in bigotry, especially anti-Semitism, and primarily on Twitter. We are collecting evidence in order to be able to investigate these claims.
===Tweets===
+
 
* '''2010-12-22 21:33''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/17769849488932864 Holiday stupid: Someone commenting to tell me people are born Jewish and have no choice of whether to be Jewish.] ([http://archive.is/BBGse archive.is])
+
The relevant Tweets are presented below without comment; Woozle's comments and analysis are [[/woozle|here]].
* '''2016-10-08 10:08''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788018914080989185 Donald Trump is best understood as an entity sent by Yahweh of the Bible/Yeshu of Nazareth.] ([http://archive.is/lkucn archive.is])
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==Tweets==
** '''10-17''':
+
===2010===
*** '''10:58''' (AKA m33n4h) [https://twitter.com/ab_silvera/status/788031327123730432 do you realise how offensive it is to compare a dude who does constant anti-semitic dog whistles to Yahweh?]
+
* '''12-22 21:33''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/17769849488932864 Holiday stupid: Someone commenting to tell me people are born Jewish and have no choice of whether to be Jewish.] ([http://archive.is/BBGse archive.is])
**** Another Tweeter tries to explain why the comparison is apt, but AKA m33n4h sarcastically dismisses their argument.
+
===2016===
 +
* '''09-04''' [https://twitter.com/zjemptv/status/772362909171220480 If she directly ordered me to murder an innocent human being I would still choose her over him. Every time. In every possible universe.]
 +
* '''10-08 10:08''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788018914080989185 Donald Trump is best understood as an entity sent by Yahweh of the Bible/Yeshu of Nazareth.] ([http://archive.is/lkucn archive.is])
 +
** '''10-17 10:58''' (@AKA m33n4h) [https://twitter.com/ab_silvera/status/788031327123730432 do you realise how offensive it is to compare a dude who does constant anti-semitic dog whistles to Yahweh?]
 +
*** Another Tweeter tries to explain why the comparison is apt, but AKA m33n4h sarcastically dismisses their argument.
 
** '''10-18''':
 
** '''10-18''':
 
*** '''20:12''' (reply) [https://twitter.com/thetinkerfae/status/788533294749016065 you aren't Jewish this isn't your place. This is reading as antisemitic]
 
*** '''20:12''' (reply) [https://twitter.com/thetinkerfae/status/788533294749016065 you aren't Jewish this isn't your place. This is reading as antisemitic]
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**** '''20:15''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788534046921981952 Sorry I phrased it that way. But a faith I don't believe doesn't have to first permit me my "place" before I can criticize it.]
 
**** '''20:15''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788534046921981952 Sorry I phrased it that way. But a faith I don't believe doesn't have to first permit me my "place" before I can criticize it.]
 
**** '''20:16''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788534162965794817 If anything it's not your place to tell me I'm somehow not allowed to critically analyze the character God in religious texts.]
 
**** '''20:16''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788534162965794817 If anything it's not your place to tell me I'm somehow not allowed to critically analyze the character God in religious texts.]
* '''2016-10-17 11:01''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788032128940376064 Also the Old Testament is one long record of God straight-up fucking over the Israelites in every imaginable way] ([http://archive.is/3kkSY archive.is])
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** '''11:01''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788032128940376064 Also the Old Testament is one long record of God straight-up fucking over the Israelites in every imaginable way] ([http://archive.is/3kkSY archive.is])
* '''2016-10-17 11:04''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788032889325772804 No? Nothing in anything I said was speaking of actual practices of Jewish people. The Bible is fiction.]
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** '''11:04''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/788032889325772804 No? Nothing in anything I said was speaking of actual practices of Jewish people. The Bible is fiction.]
 
+
* '''10-20''':
 +
** '''09:15''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/789273968175972352 that's authoritative sounding but... what they said isn't? how do you figure?]
 +
*** '''09:20''' (@PrincessOtC) [https://twitter.com/PrincessOtC/status/789275007625097217 How would you like a cis person cisplaining to you like this? Getting snarky, saying your trans views don't matter.]
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===2017===
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* '''06-09''':
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** '''03:16''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883947943992188930 I was wrong. I'm sorry.]
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*** '''03:19''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883948825647493120 could you expand a bit on this {\n\n} it hurt a *lot* of good people, Z]
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*** '''03:28''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883950903484657665 I treated it unseriously and it was way out of line and incredibly disrespectful. I understand that now. I don't support drone strikes.]
 +
*** '''03:32''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883951955952926721 There was no need for me to get into anything about antisemitism or communism. I could have just stepped away but I didn't.]
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*** '''03:36''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883953028176457728 idk, working thru the anti-Semitism, rather than whether it was expressed or withheld, is probably a more constructive means of remediation]
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*** '''03:41''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883954175847084032 "Okay. I wasn't intending to express any kind of antisemitism. I know now that I should have just listened.]
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*** '''03:46''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883955509367361537 i think what came across as more crucial was an insistence on being right as logical premise & not on showing capacity for empathy/humility]
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*** '''03:50''' [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883956574741569537 You're right and that's something I neglected. I disregarded the emotional side of things and was very unempathetic. I shouldn't have.]
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*** '''04:04''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883959959502950400 what i'm getting @: folks looked to you as a community organizer for work you've done. that twitterthon was a gesture of community sabotage...]
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*** '''04:05''' (@patienceinbee) [https://twitter.com/patienceinbee/status/883960227091148800 ...not to yourself, but to all affected by your doubling-down in notably anti-social conduct. contrition will weigh far less than atonement]
 +
*** '''04:10''' (ZJ) [https://twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/883961518806749184 I get that and I agree. It was needlessly and wantonly destructive. I am trying to make up for it.]
 +
==Acknowledgements==
 
Many of these were found by "Joke Space Kabbalist":
 
Many of these were found by "Joke Space Kabbalist":
 
* '''2017-08-24 20:12''' [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900873477309087745 I got curious and dug deeper and...I had forgotten this all started with her trying to connect trump to our religious history]
 
* '''2017-08-24 20:12''' [https://twitter.com/politiquestions/status/900873477309087745 I got curious and dug deeper and...I had forgotten this all started with her trying to connect trump to our religious history]
==Preliminary Conclusions from Woozle==
 
The 2010 comment about people not being born Jewish was kind of stupid (in that when Jewish people are persecuted, it is generally through ''racial'' accusations rather than ''belief''; persecutors do not give their targets the choice to opt out), though I don't think it was intentionally offensive or a dog-whistle. I would have liked to see the follow-up on that -- but apparently this wasn't the comment people were most incensed about.
 
 
What people got upset about, apparently, was comparing Trump to God using the Old Testament word "Yahweh" to refer to God. A few people took this as anti-Semitic (for reasons that remain unclear); ZJ clarified that she hadn't intended to target the Jewish faith, but rather all monotheism ("Christianity's deity, Islam's, LDS Church's, etc.") and then apologized for her poor choice of phrasing.
 
 
Meanwhile the same people are trying to tell ZJ that criticizing Yahweh "isn't your place" (implicit argument: you may not criticize a religion unless you are a member of that religion – although this is never explained straight out). ZJ rightly declines to be bound by the unspoken rules of a religion she does not follow.
 
 
All in all, this reads like fundamentalists taking umbrage at seeing their faith in any way impugned, and using accusations of anti-semitism as a [[soldier argument]] to attempt to shut that criticism down.
 
 
''see also [[User:Woozle/Zinnia Jones]]''
 

Revision as of 11:29, 25 August 2017

About

There have been repeated claims that ZJ engages in bigotry, especially anti-Semitism, and primarily on Twitter. We are collecting evidence in order to be able to investigate these claims.

The relevant Tweets are presented below without comment; Woozle's comments and analysis are here.

Tweets

2010

2016

2017

Acknowledgements

Many of these were found by "Joke Space Kabbalist":