2008 sacred wafer scandal/John Pieret vs. Woozle

Introduction

This is an attempt to map out the territory covered in a long discussion between science blogger John Pieret and Issuepedia editorial despot Woozle in the comments section of the En Tequila Es Verdad blog, where blog author Dana Hunter fired the opening response to Pieret's opening shot (on his blog) in her post.

Ultimately, it should be adapted into a generalized breakdown of the issues surrounding the wafer scandal, but that should go on a separate page; this page is mainly to represent the JP-Woozle debate for reference purposes, though it may bring in points made elsewhere by either of them in order to clarify their positions.

The Debate

Agreement

These are points on which there was agreement:

• The issuance of death threats by supporters of the Catholic church is insane and anyone who made one is "a demented fuckwit and a criminal" (JP's words; Woozle prefers to stick to "guilty of a criminal offense", but wouldn't say no to "demented fuckwit" if pressed).
• The church has the right to dispose of its property with whatever conditions it chooses.

Disagreement

PZ's proposal is technically theft and the receipt of stolen goods.

1 "The arational nature of the symbolism that Catholics attribute to the eucharist does not mean that others should be able to violate those symbols with impunity." In other words, PZ's request is a violation of the rules of larger society, not just religious rules.

1a Specifically, it is wrong with respect to secular law.

1a1 Eucharists are personal property belonging to the church and it is the church's right to dispose of them with whatever conditions it chooses.

1a1a Eucharists are personal property belonging to the church

1a1b Agreed: The church has the right to dispose of its property with whatever conditions it chooses.